One of my 1099-R amounts is not being added to line 4a of the Federal Form 1040. Line 4b is correct.

[samgrif]

Just FYI for folks monitoring this 4a issue, I have filed my 1040 via efile and in one week have my refund just as expected.  I had line 4a less than 4b due to a partially taxable IRA and a fully taxable pension.  The pension was not included on line 4a.  So it’s just one example, but my forms were accepted with no problems, so far!

[VolvoGirl]

Yes and I got my full refund in 2 weeks with 4a less than 4b.

[iamwhoiam]

I wonder why it is going through correctly for some whereas with others the form is being corrected and they are being refunded too much.  It's inconsistent.  Thanks @samgrif and @VolvoGirl for posting your results.  @samgrif did you get your refund since you state that you have it but then you state that your forms were accepted with no problems so far?
I know of someone who used the free file forms on the IRS website.  That person had partially taxable and fully taxable IRAs and a pension and the total distribution for everything was included on line 4a.   This would make me think that they want all of the gross distributions on line 4a.

[prtaylor56]

The inconsistent results may reflect different handling for e-file and paper file (just a guess).  The IRS computers may ignore Line 4a and just look for consistent and correct calculations involving 4b.  But any human reviewer reading a paper 1040 is going to want to investigate why the gross distributions are less than the taxable portion, leading to unpredictable conclusions and actions by that reviewer.  

TT stands alone on this one.  Every other product and service that people have reported on puts the total gross of all distributions on 4a, if any one of them is only partially taxable.  Also, people who have actually spoken with IRS representatives report that they expect 4a to be total gross distributions, when any one of them is partially taxable.

Meanwhile in the TT alternate universe, we have apparently one individual who has decided to interpret the instructions differently, and won't be moved by any other input.

[iamwhoiam]

I would think that if a person was reviewing the forms they would be able to add up the distribution info and confirm that the taxable distribution was correct and determine that some info was omitted from line 4a because those distributions were fully taxable. However, this is an assumption.
I still don't see any fix although the TT agent whom I spoke with said there should be another update coming later this week.  I am still holding off on filing but want to file by early next week.  I would prefer to e-file and just want to be sure that everything is filled out correctly.  I've used TT for many years and this is the first time I've had an issue and been concerned about filing.  
Someone else posted @ 2 days ago that because one of his distributions was not included on line 4a and 4a was less than 4b he received a correction and was over-refunded.  Can't find the thread now and don't think he stated whether he e-filed or paper filed.

[Bamboo]

@avian99 The last commenter in this thread had an erroneous refund:
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://ttlc.intuit.com/questions/4567619-pensions-not-included-in-1040-line-4a-but-is-included-in-l...>
And, of course, @frankbaumert earlier in the current thread. I don't know if either efiled or paper filed.

As I said previously, filers may not have issues now but may in the coming months because the gross distribution shown on the form 1040 doesn't match the gross on the 1099s filed by the payors. I can see letters generated automatically by the IRS asking for explanations as to why that is the case. Personally, I wouldn't want to deal with it when TT could prevent it from happening by correcting the program.

[samgrif]

avian99, yes I have my refund deposited in my account.  I was just saying that unless they do some sort of check later, I am done.  But I am reading the 1040 instructions as they are written and not taking the 1040 as a spreadsheet, but a way of reporting.  1040 instructions clearly state several reasons why line 4a does not include certain distributions.  In my case 4a was less than 4b and it processed fine.  4b is what taxes are calculated on, so unless someone finds something wrong with 4b I am not going to worry about 4a anymore.

[prtaylor56]

@samgrif

The IRS instructions give exactly one reason why a gross distribution amount should not be on 4a, and that is when the distribution is fully taxable.  It then lists a large number of reasons (rollovers, Roth conversions, partially taxable distributions, HSA distributions, QCD contributions, and multiple distributions(!)) as to why the gross amount should be on 4a.  So what are all these several types of "certain distributions" that shouldn't be on 4a?

I have personally had returns that were accepted, and then got a letter six months or more later questioning something, so it can happen

[iamwhoiam]

Here's another person who was sent an incorrect refund due to the 4a problem.  <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://ttlc.intuit.com/questions/4564305-ira-distribution-on-1099-r-is-not-shown-on-form-1040-line-...>

[samgrif]

prtaylor56, sorry I mistyped that sentence and meant to say there are several reason why 4a would include gross distributions.  Also yes my only question now is will I get an IRS letter in 6 months about 4a, but I really doubt it.  avian99, that example show someone with all accounts being fully taxable and actually having line 4a empty.  The are saying that the IRS then throws away line 4b and gives them a refund?  That sounds odd to me that the IRS would make that type of change , but there is a lot of automation these days, so maybe so.  If that’s so, then there is still something that will have to be resolved with tax prep software and IRS instructions and IRS review software.  Apparently if there is at least some amount in 4a then things will process correctly, at least for now.  I did not received any extra refund, it was exactly as expected.  

[iamwhoiam]

Opened the TT program and there was an update but, guess what, no change when it comes to lines 4a and 4b.  I understand that some people are getting the correct refund even though line 4a is less than 4b but some are not and then they have to contact the IRS and file an amendment.  Why can't this be fixed so that there won't be problems for anyone who is dealing with line 4a being less than 4b? I am disappointed and frustrated that nothing is being done.   :(    :(  I am holding off filing because of this especially since I talked to an IRS agent who told me that line 4a of my form needs to include all of my distributions.  

[Critter]

FYI ... just for the record ... My professional tax program is handling the 4a/4b situation the same way as TT and none of my clients have had any issues at all ... so don't expect them to fix what is not broken.  The IRS knows what belongs on line 4 both parts so if you enter the info into the program correctly  then all will be OK.

[prtaylor56]

@Critter#2

What is your professional tax program name?  Are you saying it handles the case of two or more IRA and/or pension distributions by omitting the fully taxable ones from 4a, while adding the partially taxable ones, so that 4a has a dollar amount (not blank) that is less than 4b?  

Some have reported that submitting a return with a 4a amount less than 4b causes no issues at the IRS, while others have reported that the IRS is rejecting and/or recalculating their returns, or requesting an amended return.

Also, some have reported here that H&R Block, TaxSlayer, and even the IRS web site handle multiple IRA/pension distributions by putting the total gross on 4a, so that it is never less than the taxable portion on 4b.

One more question:  Since you and the IRS know "what belongs on line 4 both parts", please tell us exactly what that is.  We know that 4a is labelled "IRA's, pensions, and annuities", but apparently you think it doesn't really mean it.

[Critter]

The IRS gets a copy of the 1099-R they know before you even file what belongs on line 4 ... so the only time you get an IRS letter is when the expected amount doesn't show up ( and in the prior years ... since the IRA was on a separate line from the retirements ... showed on the wrong line).  

If line 2 a of the 1099-R  is blank or says UNKNOWN then the IRS expects the taxable amount to be the same as box  1 UNLESS you have a good reason for it to not be the same and that reason is on form 5329 or 8606.   

In the 12 years I have used the DRAKE professional program, and in the 27 years in the tax prep business, none of my clients got letters from the IRS on this matter since the info was correctly entered and matched what the IRS was expecting.

[prtaylor56]

@Critter#2

None of this explains why 4a is less than 4b on TT returns with multiple IRA and pension distributions, when some are fully taxable and others are partially taxable.  You seem to be saying that it doesn't matter what's on 4a, so why is the line even there?  Why not just report the taxable amount if that's all that matters?

The obvious answer is that if the total gross amount of all distributions is different than the taxable portion, it's the gross amount total that goes on 4a.  And it's even more obvious that the gross amount total cant be less than the taxable portion total, which is what TT is reporting.

There is no way either Drake or TT could have been making 4a less than 4b during the last "12 years", since the IRA and pensions were combined on one 1040 line this year for the first time, so that argument is completely irrelevant.

It's certainly possible, though hardly guaranteed, that the IRS will overlook the fact that your reported total gross distributions (4a) are shown as less than the taxable portion (4b) on your 1040, but that doesn't change the fact than any sixth grader would know that can't possibly be correct.