One of my 1099-R amounts is not being added to line 4a of the Federal Form 1040. Line 4b is correct.

[Critter]

I am going to back out of this conversation since I am shouting at a brick wall at this point.  This is a non issue that everyone is focused on and it makes no difference in the long run. The IRS may change the rules/requirements  in the future on this mess  but until now we live with the current ones.

[iamwhoiam]

New update today but same thing with lines 4a and 4b.  Read through another knowledge base article for a professional tax software program and it stated that 4a may be less than 4b and this is how the input flows and it's correct as per IRS instructions.   I still think it looks "off" and that if one amount from a 1099-R is partially taxable than the gross distributions from all of the 1099-Rs should show on line 4a.   JMHO

[prtaylor56]

@Critter#2

When you can explain why a gross amount should be less than the taxable portion, you'll find I'm all ears.  But you can't.  So you just resort to the "it doesn't matter" argument.  Congratulations.

[prtaylor56]

@avian99

It's pretty evident TT isn't going to change anything, and that their "experts" just rationalize it in various ways.  So anyway, I filed electronically and had my federal return accepted in less than half an hour, and my state return accepted less than six hours later.

My earlier note on using override(s) as a work-around only applies if you file a paper return, since TT won't allow electronic filing with overrides.  So in my case, I just increased my pension 1099-R box 1 by a dollar, and that made 4a display the correct total gross of all my distributions (plus a dollar).

As I've been arguing, even if the IRS has no problem with 4a being less than 4b (and some are disputing that based on their filing experience), the IRS would definitely have no problem with 4a being the actual total of your 1099-R Box 1's.   Duh.

[iamwhoiam]

@prtaylor56  One shouldn't have to add $1.00 or do any other tweaks to make line
4a >4b.  It just needed a quick fix but you are right, unfortunately it doesn't seem as if any fix is coming.  I am going to paper file the state so I want everything to add up correctly.  I want to e-file the federal but don't want to have to fix things on my own.  It shouldn't be that way.

[prtaylor56]

This problem is caused by a broken link in the TurboTax worksheet "1040 Wks". The broken link is between Line 4 (Pensions and Annuities) and its data source (line 25 of the TurboTax worksheet named "1099-R Summary"). Telling people it's OK or normal for Line 4a to be less than Line 4b is wrong  in the case of multiple distributions.  TurboTax needs to fix this, period.  Also note the IRS instructions that relate to having more than one IRA/Pension/Annuity distribution: "If you (or your spouse if filing jointly) received more than one distribution, figure the taxable amount of each distribution and enter the total of the taxable amounts on line 4b. Enter the total amount of those distributions on line 4a."  Clearly TurboTax is not following this instruction, which is on page 29 of the 2018 IRS instructions for Form 1040.

[VolvoGirl]

The word from the Turbo Tax Moderator is....
However, if its an IRA distribution it will not be on line 4a, but it will be on 4b correctly per the instructions:
You should receive a Form 1099-R showing the total amount of any distribution from your IRA before income tax or other deductions were withheld. This amount should be shown in box 1 of Form 1099-R. Unless otherwise noted in the line 4a and 4b instructions, an IRA includes a traditional IRA, Roth IRA (including a myRA), simplified employee pension (SEP) IRA, and a savings incentive match plan for employees (SIMPLE) IRA. Except as provided next, leave line 4a blank and enter the total distribution (from Form 1099-R, box 1) on line 4b.
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://www.irs.gov/instructions/i1040gi#idm139844929978080">https://www.irs.gov/instructions/i1040g...>

And it says the same thing separately for "Pensions and Annuities" on 1040 Instructions page 30, “If your pension or annuity is fully taxable, enter the total pension or annuity payments (from Form(s) 1099-R, box 1) on line 4b; don't make an entry on line 4a."
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040gi.pdf">https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040gi.pdf</a>

[prtaylor56]

Your answer is correct if you have only one IRA distribution and/or one Pension distribution and it is fully taxable.  If you have more than one distribution, then there is a paragraph on page 29 of the IRS Form 1040 Instructions that reads:

"If you (or your spouse if filing jointly) received ore than one distribution, figure the taxable amount of each distribution and enter the total of the taxable amounts on line 4b. Enter the total amount of those distributions on line 4a."  

TurboTax is not behaving correctly for multiple IRA/Pension distributions and you and the TurboTax Moderator keep missing this.  

I can even tell you where the problem is caused in the TurboTax worksheets: This  problem is caused by a broken link in the TurboTax worksheet "1040 Wks".  The broken link is between Line 4 (Pensions and Annuities) and its data source (line 25 of the TurboTax worksheet named "1099-R Summary").  

TurboTax needs to fix this, but I (and several others who actually understand this problem) are losing hope that it will ever get fixed.

[prtaylor56]

By the  way, how can I get in touch with the "TurboTax Moderator", so I can get the attention on this instead of having it repeatedly dismissed.

[prtaylor56]

Instead of just repeating the same answer that Line 4A can be blank, please actually read the 1040 Instructions regarding multiple distributions, which I have referenced repeatedly.  Also actually look at the TurboTax "1040 Wks" worksheet and test whether Line 4 labeled "Pensions and Annuities" will pick up any number from its data source, which is Line 25 of the worksheet called "1099-R Summary".  

Do some research, and stop dismissing this very real bug.

[macuser_22]

@prtaylor56  - The quote:

"More than one distribution. If you (or
your spouse if filing jointly) received
more than one distribution, figure the
taxable amount of each distribution and
enter the total of the taxable amounts on
line 4b. Enter the total amount of those
distributions on line 4a."

Is on page 29 of the instructions under the *IRA Distributions* section and applies to multiple IRA distributions, not a mix of IRA's and other types of retirement plans that comes later on page 30.

Keep reading the "Fully Taxable Pensions and Annuities" section that comes next on page 30 after the IRA section.

"If your pension or annuity is
fully taxable, enter the total pension or
annuity payments (from Form(s)
1099-R, box 1) on line 4b; don’t make
an entry on line 4a."

Thus a both fully taxable IRA's and pensions, 401(k)'s can have nothing on line 4a or some on 4a if not fully taxable.

The instructions for IRA's don't apply to pensions and annuities, and the pensions and annuities don't apply to IRA's.

(Pension and annuity payments include distributions from 401(k), 403(b), and governmental 457(b) plans. Rollovers and lump-sum distributions.)

This appears to be how TurboTax is interpreting  the poorly written IRS instructions.  Treating IRA's and other types independently and then added them together.  The results look absurd but seem to comply with the instructions.

[prtaylor56]

It's really absurd if the IRA or Pension distribution is not fully taxable.  That's when you get Line 4a not just blank, but with a smaller amount than Line 4b.

Anyway, there is also a broken link on the new worksheet that was added this year, "1040 Wks".  The broken link is between Line 4 (Pensions and Annuities) and its data source (line 25 of the TurboTax worksheet named "1099-R Summary").  Fixing this broken link gets a sensible result for multiple distributions, some of which are fully taxable while others are not.  

When is someone at TurboTax going to to take a serious look at this, instead of just using tortured logic to justify this absurd result?  This multiple distribution scenario (some fully taxable and others not) was handled correctly last year before this new 1040 Wks sheet was added.

[prtaylor56]

By the way, start following this other thread, since it may be a better description of the observed issue:

<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://ttlc.intuit.com/questions/4567619-pensions-not-included-in-1040-line-4a-but-is-included-in-l...>

Also, more commentators on the thread above actually understand the problem  This current thread seems to be dealing only with the case where distributions are fully taxable.

[prtaylor56]

@macuser_22

"If your pension or annuity is
fully taxable, enter the total pension or
annuity payments (from Form(s)
1099-R, box 1) on line 4b; don’t make
an entry on line 4a."

I know all about this quote that you and others keep throwing out.  I'm talking about the case where one or more distributions are not fully taxable, so stop quoting the above. Do some research on how the multiple distribution scenario (some not fully taxable and others fully taxable) has always been handled by TurboTax in the past.  Also check out the broken link in the 1040 Wks sheet that I keep describing.  Just fix the broken link, and I'll go away.  That's what you want isn't it?

[macuser_22]

If not fully taxable, then the taxable amount should go on line 4b and the box 1 amount on 4a.

BTW: I agree with you - I think the way is is done is dumb - I am just another user like you, and yes, I did take note of the summary screen (that also seems to be mislabeled as 1040 line 16a and 16b on lined 25 and 32d.)  The amount on line 25 appears to be ignored.

Whether they will do anything or not, I do not know.