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Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

What kind of world is this where you have to Beg a company that you pay, to help you pay, a ton of money to the government.

 

I feel like a complete Sucker.  

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

Any Updates? Is Turbo Tax going to allow us to efile these forms this year?

AliciaP1
Expert Alumni

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

The IRS finalized the form for e-filing earlier this month.  You can check IRS forms availability table for TurboTax Business for other forms as well.

 

@jdddddd

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Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

I found this from your link. Not sure this is the correct one we need, but more importantly is it efileable with turbotax online?
 
Form 8995, Qualified Business Income Deduction Simplified Computation available available

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B


@jdddddd wrote:
I found this from your link. Not sure this is the correct one we need, but more importantly is it efileable with turbotax online?

@jdddddd 

 

Below is the link for forms availability for the online versions of TurboTax.

 

https://care-cdn.prodsupportsite.a.intuit.com/forms-availability/turbotax_fed_online_individual.html

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

Form 8995-A, Qualified Business Income Deduction available available
 
Found above from your link. Now the Big Question. Is this form signable and able to be efiled?

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

To which form are you referring?

 

Form 8995-A does not require a signature.

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

This is from about 10 posts ago. Do you understand what this whole thread is about?

 

"Based on some of the posts some seem to think this issue is a recent one.  This all started when the QBI deduction was first introduced with the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.  The first tax year allowing the QBI deduction was 2018 however since it was still new the application of it as it pertains to rental activity was not fully clear or defined.  Subsequently the Safe Harbor procedure came forth but was not finalized until 9/24/19.  TurboTax initially did not offer attaching a signed Safe Harbor election to 2019 tax returns but after receiving numerous complaints finally had their developers fix this issue.  This fix (update) was done on 4/1/2020 - see the post below which was copied and pasted from a March 27, 2020 posting included within this same topic.  

Last year when preparing tax returns for 2020 TurboTax again did not not initially offer the ability to attach a signed Safe Harbor statement and they again received nonstop complaints.  Unfortunately for 2020 TurboTax failed to update the software to allow it.  I had to paper file in order to elect the Safe Harbor for 2020.

So, obviously TurboTax is capable of allowing the attachment of the Safe Harbor signed election just as they did with the 2019 software.  Also, this has nothing to do with the IRS as professional tax software has allowed this attachment each year including 2020.  It basically boils down to whether TurboTax wants to put forth the efforts and determine whether it is in their best financial interest. Hopefully if enough customers stress the need and complain TurboTax will make this an option for  as long as the QBI deduction remains.

 

 

Below is the post from March 27,2020

 

 DavidS127
Expert Alumni
‎March 27, 2020 11:12 AM
 
 

 

Form 8995-A Schedule B e-file will be enabled in the update scheduled on or about 4/1/2020.

 

@blackjack21"

DM26
Level 3

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

I agree with jdddddd in that some people on this forum don’t seem to fully understand the various forms and filing requirements.

 

Form 8995 is the “Qualified Business Income Deduction Simplified Computation”.  This form is used to claim the QBI deduction for various types of qualified businesses.

 

Form SCHEDULE B (Form 8995-A) is the “Aggregation of Business Operations”.  This form is used in addition if a taxpayer wants to combine businesses that provide services that are the same and share significant business elements.  For example, for someone that owns multiple separate entity rental properties they can aggregate business operations on this form.

 

Form Section 199A is the “Rental Real Estate Enterprise Statement”.  This form is used to affirm that all requirement for the Safe Harbor have been met per Revenue Procedure 2019-38.  THIS IS THE FORM (SAFE HARBOR ELECTION) THAT NEEDS TO BE SIGNED BY THE TAXPAYER AND THEN ATTACHED TO THE RETURN.  THIS IS ALSO THE FORM THAT TURBOTAX NEEDS TO ALLOW ATTACHMENT FOR E-FILING PURPOSES!!

 

For those who may not understand the importance of this Safe Harbor statement as it applies to RENTAL INCOME activity please read the following:

In order to take the QBI deduction you must have Qualified Business Income.  Rental Activity is specifically labeled a NOT being a Qualified Business Activity for most purposes unless you are a Real Estate Professional such as a realtor and meet the minimum required hours.  The safe Harbor is what provides an exception to this. 

The 20% Qualified Business Income (QBI) deduction under Section 199A is only eligible for “QUALIFIED” business.  The IRS lists business types that are qualified automatically.  RENTAL PROPERTY ACTIVITY  is generally NOT a QUALIFIED BUSINESS ACTIVITY especially since historically it has been considered PASSIVE income by the IRS.  The exception which does not apply to most taxpayers is if you are a Real Estate professional (realtor, etc.) who spends at least 750 hours in the business. The IRS, however, has allowed an exception for non-Real Estate professionals with their rental property businesses.  These exceptions fall under SAFE Harbors (IRS notice 2019-07 and Revenue Procedure 2019-38). IRS notice 2019-07 applies to a single property while Revenue Procedure 2019-38 applies to multiple properties if the taxpayer elects to combine all their rental properties in an Enterprise.

When a taxpayer elects to apply the Safe Harbor to their rental(s) this makes their rental business qualify for the QBI deduction. Since income from investments is usually NOT eligible is it important to elect the Safe Harbor. IMPORTANT: In order to elect the Safe Harbor the taxpayer needs to INCLUDE A SIGNED STATEMENT to this effect and include it in their tax return.

In order to elect the Safe Harbor the signed statement must include that all the following (plus some additional) are true on the statement:

  1. Separate books and records are maintained to reflect income and expenses for each rental real estate enterprise.
  2. For rental real estate enterprises that have been in existence less than four years, 250 or more hours of rental services are performed per year. For other rental real estate enterprises, 250 or more hours of rental services are performed in at least three of the past five years.
  3. The taxpayer maintains contemporaneous records, including time reports, logs, or similar documents, regarding the following: hours of all services performed; description of all services performed; dates on which such services were performed; and who performed the services.

If a taxpayer has several rental properties they must satisfy the 250 hour rule for EACH property unless they aggregate their properties into an Enterprise.  By aggregating they are combining all their rentals into one business enterprise so they don’t have to satisfy the 250 hours of service for each property but instead 250 hours combined for all their properties.  In order to aggregate all rental activities together the taxpayer needs to include Schedule B (Form 8995-A) Aggregation of Business Operations and name each business and/or enterprise that are to be combined on the form.

For those who may decided to just not include the Safe Harbor statement on their tax return are making a poor decision in my opinion.  Again, investment income generally is NOT eligible for the 20% QBI deduction and if the taxpayer does not elect to take the exception (Safe Harbor) that the IRS has provided then, if audited, the 20% deduction will likely be reversed leading to an additional liability with interest and penalty.

Obviously electing the Safe Harbor is the best decision.

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

Thank you DM26.
So Turbo Tax Representative, Is This 199A FORM now able to be signed and attached for E-FILING?

 

"Form Section 199A is the “Rental Real Estate Enterprise Statement”.  This form is used to affirm that all requirement for the Safe Harbor have been met per Revenue Procedure 2019-38.  THIS IS THE FORM (SAFE HARBOR ELECTION) THAT NEEDS TO BE SIGNED BY THE TAXPAYER AND THEN ATTACHED TO THE RETURN.  THIS IS ALSO THE FORM THAT TURBOTAX NEEDS TO ALLOW ATTACHMENT FOR E-FILING PURPOSES!!"

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B


@jdddddd wrote:

This is from about 10 posts ago. Do you understand what this whole thread is about?


Yes, but what threw me off was one response that linked to TurboTax Business and then your response which did not mention the safe harbor.

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

Great Glad you understand. So is 199A able to be SIGNED and E-FILED? 

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B


@jdddddd wrote:

Great Glad you understand. So is 199A able to be SIGNED and E-FILED? 


TurboTax has not changed the form, but it can still be e-filed without being signed (whether that is correct or not is open to discussion).

 

See https://proconnect.intuit.com/community/proseries-tax-discussions/discussion/199a-rental-real-estate...

 

See the RP here: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/rp-19-38.pdf

DM26
Level 3

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

Champ – Are you making an assumption or do know for a fact that TurboTax now supports e-filing when  Section 199A Rental Real Estate Enterprise Statement (Safe Harbor election) is included within the tax return?

 

I have not yet purchased tax software for the  2021 tax year as I am waiting to see which tax software allows this.  Unfortunately I don’t believe you are correct and are simply making an assumption.  Below I am attaching the screenshot from my 2020 tax return prepared on TurboTax which clearly states the inability to file electronically.

 

Also, you state the requirement to sign this statement is open to discussion.  Why is it then that this form contains a separate declaration (see below) along with a signature line and date?

Under penalties of perjury, I (we) declare that I (we) have examined the statement, and, to the best of my (our) knowledge and belief, the statement contains all the relevant facts relating to the revenue procedure, and such facts are true, correct, and complete. 

 

I do not believe this is open for discussion and that the IRS requires this election and affirmation to be separately signed and dated by the taxpayer.  In fact this is the reason why TurboTax has not allowed e-filing with this statement.  To allow e-filing requires TurboTax to have the form uploaded into the tax return after it has been signed and dated.

 

QBI  Stmt message.jpg

 

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B


@DM26 wrote:

Below I am attaching the screenshot from my 2020 tax return prepared on TurboTax which clearly states the inability to file electronically.


I can get all the way to Transmit Returns Now with the 2021 software (on a test return with Home & Business).

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