1099-R Box 5 exceeds Box 1

[Inugasuki]

I have Roth 401(k), and Form 1099-R is showing Box 5 exceeding Box 1.  What does this mean?  Box 2a is blank. 

[MissMCJ]

2A is the amount that you owe taxes on and that should be blank for a ROTH.    There are many things that can be included in Box 5.  What they included in your personal Box 5 is something that your financial institution needs to explain to you. 

[macuser_22]

What year are you doing - 2019 or 2020?     2020 1099-R's have not even been sent out yet - do you have your 1099-R?   What code is in box 7?

For a designated Roth (401(k) Roth) box 5 will be the amount of your contributions that are included in the box 1 amount so it is not possible to include more than the total of box 1.    If box 5 is actually more then box 1 then the 1099-R is incorrect and must be corrected by the issuer.

In most circumstances a 401(k) Roth will not have a blank box 2a - again what is the box 7 code?

[Inugasuki]

Box 7 code is B8.  It was for 2019.

I did contact the "payor" about the form, but they are saying they don't show a negative amount for Box 2a.

[MissMCJ]

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1099r.pdf 
Box 5. Generally, this shows the employee’s investment in the
contract (after-tax contributions), if any, recovered tax free this year;
the portion that’s your basis in a designated Roth account; the part of
premiums paid on commercial annuities or insurance contracts
recovered tax free; the nontaxable part of a charitable gift annuity; or
the investment in a life insurance contract reportable under section
6050Y. This box doesn’t show any IRA contributions. If the amount
shown is your basis in a designated Roth account, the year you first
made contributions to that account may be entered in box 11.

[macuser_22]

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@Inugasuki wrote:

Box 7 code is B8.  It was for 2019.

I did contact the "payor" about the form, but they are saying they don't show a negative amount for Box 2a.

---

Box 2a can never be negative.

Code B8 indicates a corrective distribution from an excess contribution.      Box 2a should have the excess contribution and earnings distributed less any designated Roth contributions, so box 2a could be zero or blank.  Box 5 should only contain the amount of basis (your contributions) being returned in box 1.    Perhaps they mistakenly entered ALL of your past Designated Roth contributions in aggregate rather than nothing or just the amount of contributions that are included in the box 1 amount.   In any event box 5 (part of box 1) can never be more then the whole of box 1.

[Inugasuki]

Thanks again for your reply!

I have sent them an email.

[NCperson]

@Inugasuki - can you please restate?

which is it? 

"I have Roth 401(k), and Form 1099-R is showing Box 5 exceeding Box 1.  What does this mean?  Box 2a is blank." 

"they don't show a negative amount for Box 2a."

[Inugasuki]

Box 2a is blank.  Box 5 amount exceeds Box 1 amount.

[SteamTrain]

@Inugasuki 

Are you absolutely sure this was not a ROTH-IRA ?  I'm not sure a person would/could have an overcontribution to a ROTH-401k, unless they had multiple employers in that year and contributed considerable amounts to 401k plans at both employers.

A ROTH-401k and ROTH-IRA may be handled entirely differently, especially if you pulled all your funds out of a specific ROTH-IRA account that lost money.

[macuser_22]

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@NCperson wrote:

@Inugasuki - can you please restate?

which is it? 

"I have Roth 401(k), and Form 1099-R is showing Box 5 exceeding Box 1.  What does this mean?  Box 2a is blank." 

"they don't show a negative amount for Box 2a."

---

I am assuming that there was a loss in the Designated Roth which would explain a zero or blank box 2a.   A loss cannot be shown with a negative number.

[macuser_22]

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@Inugasuki wrote:

Box 2a is blank.  Box 5 amount exceeds Box 1 amount.

---

Are you getting a error with that?

The instructions say that for a designated Roth "Enter the employee's contributions, designated Roth contributions, or insurance premiums that the employee may recover tax free this year (even if they exceed the box 1 amount)."

@dmertz ???

[macuser_22]

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@SteamTrain wrote:

@Inugasuki 

Are you absolutely sure this was not a ROTH-IRA ?  I'm not sure a person would/could have an overcontribution to a ROTH-401k, unless they had multiple employers in that year and contributed considerable amounts to 401k plans at both employers.

A ROTH-401k and ROTH-IRA may be handled entirely differently, especially if you pulled all your funds out of a specific ROTH-IRA account that lost money.

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The code "8B" in box 7 says that it is a Designated Roth return of excess contributions (unless a financial institution made a huge error and the code should have been "8J" for a Roth IRA).

[SteamTrain]

Ahh good point...

Still, thinking about having multiple employer ROTH 401k over contributions, where the employee contributed to a ROTH 401k at the second employer, and exceeded yearly limit:

......couldn't the employee in that case, remove all of the holdings in that particular ROTH-401k ...but IF the funds lost money during that time period, wouldn't the 1099-R show box 5 being greater than box 1?     

(not sure if that would be allowed with partial pullout )

[Inugasuki]

This is my ROTH 401(k).  I believe my employer failed ADP test.