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Failure to pay quarterly estimated taxes

In past years I've never paid estimated quarterly taxes (I'm retired) but simply filed my yearly taxes in April, and a several times my taxes were well over $1,000 (one year was $2600) and I wasn't penalized by the IRS for not paying quarterly taxes.  I didn't know I should be doing that. 
For the filing year 2024 I  also didn't pay quarterly estimated taxes, as usual because I wasn't aware it was even necessary, since it never was before, even when my tax bill was higher. 
For 2024 my tax bill was $1805 which I paid in full all at once as usual, and on time, but the website tells me that I will be penalized for not having paid any estimated quarterly taxes in 2024. 
I looked on my IRS account page it says NOTHING about me owing any penalty for failure to pay quarterly taxes in any year, but it does show all the tax filing payments I did make in past years.
The IRS also has never once contacted me by any means - letter or email, about me owing any penalties/interest for past years failure to pay estimated quarterly taxes.     I chose not to try to figure out what my tax penalty/interest would be, and to let the IRS tell me what it is.  So I am very confused right now and don't understand what is going on and why now this is a problem when before, it never came up. 

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11 Replies

Failure to pay quarterly estimated taxes

This FAQ for estimated tax is useful https://www.irs.gov/faqs/estimated-tax

 

It's not so much about your final payment in April, but the minimum amount you need to pay "as you go" during the year.  This "safe harbor" to avoid penalty is to have paid "timely" during the year via withholding or quarterly ES either of: 100% of 2023 tax (110% if AGI > 150k), or 90% of 2024 tax, whichever is smaller.  If you didn't hit either of those that will trigger a penalty.  It's possible in the past you made safe harbor and owed some tax with your return, but this time you were under.

 

Looking forward to 2025, you may also see TT by default will generate ES vouchers for 2025 based on paying "100/110% of 2024 tax" in 2025 thru withholding or estimated taxes and assumes 2025 withholding is the same as 2024.  You can go through Other Tax Situations / Form W4 and Estimated Taxes to provide estimates for 2025 to see if you can then adopt "90% of 2025 tax" instead, and determine if any withholding is enough or you need to pay ES for 2025.


Once you figure that 'safe harbor' amount it gets easier to think about withholding and estimated taxes and avoid penalties.

Failure to pay quarterly estimated taxes

PS if you are on TT desktop version in Forms mode, double click the penalty on your 1040, double click it again on the worksheet and it will bring up Form 2210 showing the penalty calculation, it will show this 2023 vs. 2024 safe harbor calculation and then the quarterly underpayments.  Not sure equivalent for TT Online but it should be in the PDF with "all forms and worksheets".

Failure to pay quarterly estimated taxes

My point was that I've NEVER EVER paid quarterly estimated taxes ahead of time and ONLY ALWAYS paid at time of filing my taxes in April of the year following the year I'm filing (like pay in April 2025 for the year 2024) and YET, I've had to pay quite a bit MORE in the past re Federal Tax, than I paid this year...and the IRS NEVER CONTACTED ME AND IT'S NOT ANYWHERE ON MY IRS ACCOUNT I CAN SEE ONLINE.  I looked and looked and looked for some past amount owed for failure to pay estimated taxes ahead of time...this is something I didn't even know I had to do  as I have not worked for money since the  year 2002, and I never made enough most years to even have to pay ANY income taxes (my social security is only $521 per month, for example) so this is not something I was even aware of since NO ONE TOLD me, including  the IRS, that this was necessary.  I knew it 'existed' for some people to do, but I assumed it was only for self-employed people, which I am not.  
So I am perplexed as to why suddenly I am supposed to be doing this, when before even owing more and waiting until the following April to pay my tax, I was not penalized.  The only time the IRS has ever contacted me about anything at all was back in 2012 when I hadn't filed for 2 years (2010 & 2011) because of lots of reasons not important here, and so they did those 2 years for me and I ended up owing something like $50 or less for my Federal Income Taxes, plus a small fine of about $10 for failure to file; I'm quite sure that the IRS spent significantly more $$$ collecting this from me than the pathetically small amount that I owed them.  I'm not exactly rolling in money, I'm on Medicaid (called AHCCCS in Arizona).  Maybe I can given a pass this time because honestly I had no idea I had to do this but now that I know, I can and will.  (My income fluctuates wildly from one year to the next so it's hard to plan ahead but I think I can maybe manage to muster up $150 a month somehow, even though other than my meager social security, I don't get most of my income until the last week of December.  However if I lose my Medicaid due to Orange Mussolini and his gloating billionaires club, I'll be in big trouble and I'm very worried about that because then I'll lose quite a bit of my minimal social security to pay for Part B of Medicare, plus copays & for medicine and all that jazz and basically won't be able to afford medical care because of that.   And the small kind of rural community clinic with a sliding scale that treats mostly people on Medicare and AHCCCS (where I go) will go out of business.  So the nuts and bolts clinic staff will lose their jobs and those on the clerical end of things will maybe become unemployed and impoverished as a result.  
I have several permanent partial disabilities that have made working for money difficult for decades, and now at age 73 impossible...but I don't receive "disability payments" because I'm not quite impoverished enough for that.  What this means is that you have to be almost living in a dumpster and surviving on the discarded/expired food from grocery stores to qualify.  Of course that's a bit of an exaggeration, but lately it's not all that far off from the truth.   Then if you do get it, you can afford rental housing in a crime infested neighborhood that actually should be condemned for being structurally unsound and unsafe.  I know a few people in that situation, but they are happy just to have a roof over their head and a donated bicycle to get to dumpsters for the food & clothes they can salvage, and to churches and foodbanks.  I myself have fortunately been spared this type of degradation but I am well aware of its reality, and these people are not drug addicts nor are they mentally ill, they are just impoverished seniors.  But, it Could happen to me in the future, becoming homeless.  Meanwhile I'll be a good girl and pay my taxes, while the Billionaires, who are completely clueless about & clearly don't care at all about the lives of the less fortunate, are doing Just Fine. 
All Hail Orange Mussolini! 

Failure to pay quarterly estimated taxes

The underpayment penalty on 1040 line 38?

It's not for filing or paying late.  It doesn't have to do with last year's tax return or not paying estimates for this year.  The penalty is an "estimated" amount.    It's a penalty if you owe too much or for not paying in enough withholding during the year or not paying in evenly.  Even if you are getting a refund you can still owe a penalty.

 

You might have been able to eliminate it or at least reduce it.  You go to Federal Taxes tab or Personal tab, under Other Tax Situations and select Start by the Underpayment Penalties. You will answer a series of questions that may reduce or eliminate the penalty. Or you can elect to have the IRS figure the penalty for you.  It's form 2210.

 

It's under

Federal or Personal (for Home & Business Desktop)

Other Tax Situations

Additional Tax Payments

Underpayment Penalties - Click the Start or update button

Failure to pay quarterly estimated taxes

An unexpected penalty is signaling something has changed with your tax situation that you need to figure out or potentially get another penalty for 2025.  You probably don't need to pay estimated tax but your withholding may need adjustment.  I suggest finding the Form 2210 in your return with the calculation to see why it happened, and also look into the interview for 2025 info under Other Tax Situations / Form W4 and Estimated Taxes.

Failure to pay quarterly estimated taxes

I don't think anyone can help me as they don't seem to understand what I am saying.
I am not employed and have no withholding.  I am 73 and retired, haven't worked for money since about 2002 and even then was very minimal as a massage therapist and I didn't make enough to pay any taxes at all.  (I have a few permanent partial disabilities that have made earning money pretty dicey, including that in 1996 I was thrown from a rearing horse who then fell over backwards and landed on my chest, but many of my problems predated that dramatic event.) Most of my life I haven't earned enough to pay taxes, though in a few years I have had to.  So nothing in particular has changed for me, except that during the past year there were requirements by the credit union I use, to have direct deposits to my checking account totaling $750 per month.  So in addition to my regular small social security of $521 deposited directly to my checking account, last year I arranged to receive $250 per month as part of the RMD from my beneficial Ira and get the rest of the RMD as a once yearly deposit. Prior to that I was just getting the one-time yearly RMD deposit, plus the small monthly deposit from Social Security.  I haven't been told by the IRS that I owe any sort of penalty for failure to pay estimated taxes, ever, in any year, and I've paid more in taxes maybe 3 times since 2000 when my dad died, in other years than I owed this time for 2024, so I still don't know why the website informed me that I will owe penalty & fine for not paying quarterly taxes.  It was left up to me to either use the IRS form to calculate that amount OR to just let the IRS figure it out and send me the bill.  So I chose the latter since by that time my eyes and back were killing me and I couldn't possibly fill out another form or do any math, I was just too exhausted & hungry!  And the big puzzle is that on my online IRS account info, there is NOTHING stated that I owe this to the IRS, including no mention at all of any penalty for failure to pay estimated tax for 2024.  So I'm just going to wait and see what happens, and if they do send me a letter saying that I  owe whatever amount, I will at that time see if they will forgive me because I didn't even know I needed to pay quarterly taxes, as I never had before and was never informed by the IRS that I needed to do that, nor was I informed by any website I have used to file my returns that I needed to do that...until, mysteriously, this time.  I guess I have to get over caring why this has happened out of the blue, give up needing an answer, and just deal with it at the point of getting an IRS notice in the mail (which, for all I know, may never even come.) And pay my quarterly taxes in 2025, I guess I should do that now for the first part of 2025 since I NOW know about this.  But I don't know how to do that so that's something else to go on my already overwhelming miles-long to-do list.  Maybe I'll someday manage to learn how to fit in regularly eating and sleeping while also trying to handle all the many tasks of my life LOL (including caring for 3 rescued horses and 3 other pets.  

I sure wish I could afford to pay someone else to  do this kind of crap for me, I hate doing myself so very much.  I am quite certain that I have ADHD though have not sought diagnosis, and this kind of thing for me is so incredibly stultifying and overwhelming, partly because I have always utterly despised and resented having to fill out "forms" of any kind whether online or with paper and pen.  It's worse online because I also intensely dislike using electronic technology, it's confusing and intimidating, definitely don't want a smartphone and have never even owned a television! I find it incomprehensible that there are plenty of people who actually do exist, who actually do ENJOY being CPAs, computer programmers, financial advisors, and the like.   All that linear left-brain number crunching stuff  is like visiting some ring of Hell, to me.  I mean, we need to be able to do some of that to effectively manage our daily lives and keep our checkbooks balanced and live within our means (I can do that easily), but to actively CHOOSE to do that sort of activity for 8 or more hours every day, for years on end, as a career..........baffling. 
I'd MUCH rather clean up horse manure all day.  Or write poetry.  Or give someone a massage.  Or prepare natural remedies for my animals' various needs.  Numbers and forms and electronic technology are definitely not about life and feeling and love. 

DawnC
Employee Tax Expert

Failure to pay quarterly estimated taxes

You should have either Social Security or the payer of your retirement income a withholding form for 2025 so you can avoid this next year.   

 

W-4P - Complete Form W-4P so your payer can withhold more federal income tax from your periodic pension, annuity (including commercial annuities), profit-sharing and stock bonus plan, or individual retirement arrangement (IRA) payments.  OR:

W-4V - Complete and give to SSA to have the government withhold tax from your social security payments.

 

 

From the IRS - Reduce or Remove an Underpayment Penalty.   While the penalty for underpayment of estimated tax generally cannot be waived due to reasonable cause, the penalty may be removed or reduced if the underpayment is the result of a casualty, local disaster, or other unusual circumstance when it would not be fair to impose the penalty. If you think you qualify for a waiver of the penalty as explained above, please send your written explanation, signed under penalty of perjury, to us at the address at the top of your notice.

Additionally, we may reduce a penalty if any of the following apply:

 

If you think you qualify for a waiver of the penalty under any provision explained above, please send your written explanation, signed under penalty of perjury, to us at the address at the top of this notice.

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Failure to pay quarterly estimated taxes

Oh  you turned 73?  Do  you have an IRA or 401K account?  You have to start taking the RMD Required Minimum Distribution on retirement accounts.   It will even start asking you if you took a RMD from a pension now.   There were some bugs in the RMD questions earlier and people were getting wrongly hit with a penalty for not taking the RMD.   So that's one thing you need to check.  See if you have a Schedule 2 line 8 for additional tax from form 5329.  Schedule 2 goes to 1040 line 23.

 

You got the underpayment penalty for owing too much on your tax return.   Not for owing the IRS for any prior taxes or for not paying estimates.  Although you might need to start paying estimates so you don't owe so much next  year.  Or you  need to start having withholding taken out of your IRA and any RMDs and pension if you get a pension.     

 

 

sbwreed
New Member

Failure to pay quarterly estimated taxes

Hi, I understand what you’re saying, and why it’s incredibly frustrating to have people tell you to increase your withholding when you have no earned income (salary).

 

im going to suggest you contact AARP (too late for this year, but maybe talk to them to plan for next year). They have a program to do your taxes for you, and it’s no cost to you. I hope this suggestion helps, and that you actually get this message!

“The Tax-Aide program is the largest free tax-assistance and preparation service in the U.S. Beginning in February, thousands of AARP Foundation volunteers who have been trained and certified by the IRS welcome older adults in various locations across all 50 states.“

Failure to pay quarterly estimated taxes

If you will be taking RMD, tax withholding is mandatory on 401k but optional on IRA and in either case you specify how much.

Have sufficient withholding taken from your distribution and you will not have to make estimated tax payments.

 

IRS requires you to estimate your tax.

 

@Little Hawk 

Failure to pay quarterly estimated taxes

Now that you have other RMD income from IRA or 401K it might make some of your Social Security taxable.  You need to have withholding taken out or send in quarterly estimated payments.

 

Up to 85% of Social Security becomes taxable when all your other income plus 1/2 your social security, reaches:

Married Filing Jointly: $32,000

Single or head of household: $25,000

Married Filing Separately: 0

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