Hi All,
I got laid off this year in Feb so I didn't max my 401K contribution and rolled the 401k into an existing Traditional IRA in March. Can I make the remaining 401k contribution to the Traditional IRA I only made $200 contribution to the IRA after tax but stopped since I only now realized I'm mixing pre-tax with after tax money and tax might get complicated later. I file single and don't get credit for IRA contribution cause my income is around $100K. I guess my question is it worth to make the contribution that is if would get credit. Thanks
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"Can I make the remaining 401k contribution to the Traditional IRA"
No, the contribution limit for a 401(k) only applies to contributions made to a 401(k). Any ordinary contribution that you make to an IRA is subject to the IRA contribution limit.
Since you are over the $89,000 MAGI limit for being eligible to deduct any of your traditional IRA contributions but under the $150,000 MAGI limit where the Roth IRA contribution limit begins to be reduced, it would be beneficial for you ask your traditional IRA custodian to recharacterize the $200 traditional IRA contribution already made for 2025 to be a Roth IRA contribution instead and to make additional contributions to a Roth IRA to increase your contributions up to the limit (an additional $6,800 if under age 50 or $7,800 if age 50 or over, assuming that you have sufficient compensation to support the maximum IRA contribution for the year).
Thanks for responding. I don't have a Roth IRA and per my understanding I can't open a backdoor Roth IRA since I don't have a 401K to transfer the pre-tax amounts out of the traditional IRA unless my understanding is wrong.
If I understood you correctly I can't make 401K contribution to the traditional IRA as it will now be considered as IRA contribution and I won't get any credit cause of income limit. In other words leave things as is since no tax benefit?
I'm not suggesting any "backdoor" Roth, just ordinary contributions to a Roth IRA. You are not above the $150,000 MAGI limit for making an ordinary Roth IRA contribution.
A $200 contribution made for 2025 to a traditional IRA can be recharacterized to be a Roth IRA contribution instead (not a Roth conversion), making it as if the $200 was originally contributed to the Roth IRA instead of to the traditional IRA.
"I won't get any credit"
You mean deduction, not credit. That's why I suggest recharacterizing the $200 contribution to be a Roth IRA contribution instead.
You invest in an IRA or 401k to get the long term tax savings and have money when you retire, not because you might get a couple hundred dollars of a saver's credit from the feds. The first question is, do you want to invest some more money for retirement? (Knowing that there are limits on withdrawing it before retirement)?
If you do want to invest more money for retirement than you already have, the next issue is that the 401k contribution rules and IRA contribution rules are different and don't add or subtract from each other. The contribution limit for any kind of IRA is $7500 if you are under age 50. It doesn't matter if you already contributed $10 or $10,000 to your 401k.
The third issue is that if you were covered by a workplace plan for even one pay period in 2025, then you follow the IRA rules for someone who is "covered" by a plan, even if your plan was not maxed out.
There are three ways you can contribute to an IRA.
At your income, you are probably disallowed from making a deductible contribution to a traditional IRA, but you should be eligible to contribute non-deductible funds to a traditional IRA or to a Roth IRA. For several reasons, the Roth IRA is preferred if you are eligible. Mixing pre-tax (deductible) and after-tax (non-deductible) contributions in a traditional IRA has some complications and paperwork issues that you need to know about. Instead, if you already made a non-deductible contribution to a traditional IRA, you could reverse that and contribute to a Roth instead (that is called recharacterizing, and you would have your broker do that for you). Then you could contribute additional funds directly to the Roth IRA.
Thank you so much for the explanation I appreciate it. Please bare with me as I'm trying to understand this complicated issue at least it's to me.
"Mixing pre-tax (deductible) and after-tax (non-deductible) contributions in a traditional IRA has some complications and paperwork issues that you need to know about." - I have this issue and contributed for years as I was informed I could make contributions but lately realized I been mixing pre-tax and after-tax and have form 8606 for after-tax contributions and now decided to stop putting after-tax contributions since I was not contributing the much.
"Instead, if you already made a non-deductible contribution to a traditional IRA, you could reverse that and contribute to a Roth instead (that is called recharacterizing, and you would have your broker do that for you). Then you could contribute additional funds directly to the Roth IRA." - Can you please explain this a little cause when I asked the broker he said I can't do it now and will need an employer 401k to do backdoor Roth IRA. Are you saying I can open a stand alone Roth IRA now or maybe later next year and transfer all the after-tax contributions I made to the Traditional IRA over the year to a Roth IRA now without a backdoor.
What will be the easiest way to handle this that I can max my contributions for if not now later when I get a job hopefully. Thanks in advance for your guidance.
As far as mixing deductible and non-deductible funds.
If you've been doing that for "years" you are kind of stuck with that situation. Your traditional IRA has a mix of contributions that were never taxed (because they were deducted) and contributions that were already taxed (non-deductible). However, the entire amount you withdraw from a traditional IRA when you retire is taxable, even though you already paid tax on part of your contributions. To not pay tax on the non-deductible contribution, you need to keep track of the non-deductible contributions on form 8606, and keep the most recent form 8606 for the rest of your life, or until the next year when you make a non-deductible contribution. The IRS won't allow you to claim part of your withdrawal as tax-free unless you have the 8606 to prove it, they don't keep track for you.
When you withdraw, you use form 8606 to avoid tax on part of the withdrawal. Suppose your balance is $100,000, of which $20,000 was deductible contributions, $10,000 was non-deductible contributions, and $70,000 is growth. You withdraw $5000. Because 10% of your balance is from non-deductible contributions, 10% of the withdrawal is non-taxable. That also reduces your non-deductible basis by $500. Then the next year, if the account is worth $105,000 due to growth, but your non-deductible basis is $4500, 4.28% of your withdrawal is non-taxable. And so on and so on. A tax program will do the math for you, but you have to keep copies of the 8606 forms for as long as you have money in an IRA, and should not discard them after 3 or 6 years which is the usual advice for most tax papers.
And it makes it much harder to do Roth IRA conversions.
As far as reversing a contribution:
You said that you rolled over the 401k to a traditional IRA, and you also contributed $200 of non-deductible funds. You can't reverse the rollover. That's done. but you could reverse the $200 contribution, if I understood your statement correctly.
But that may be pointless if your traditional IRA already mixes deductible and non-deductible contributions.
If you were in a situation where all your traditional IRA funds were deductible, adding $200 of non-deductible contributions creates an unnecessary complication of needing form 8606 and having to track the basis for the rest of your life. But if you were already in that situation, it doesn't change anything to add more pre-tax money by rollover. That's just something that will need to be reported and taken into account if you ever want to withdraw or convert the money.
"What will be the easiest way to handle this that I can max my contributions"
You can always contribute the maximum to a traditional IRA no matter your other income, you just might not be able to deduct it. If you are in the income range where a deductible IRA contribution is not allowed but a Roth IRA is allowed, it would be cleaner to contribute to a Roth IRA rather than make non-deductible contributions to a trad IRA. But since you already have mixed deductible and non-deductible contributions in a trad IRA, the benefits of keeping the non-deductible money in a separate Roth IRA are less than they would be for someone who hasn't mingled their funds.
"the benefits of keeping the non-deductible money in a separate Roth IRA are less than they would be for someone who hasn't mingled their funds."
Perhaps that statement is not worded in a way that conveys what you meant to say. The benefits of having money in a Roth IRA are independent of what one has in other retirement accounts. If one has to choose between making an ordinary nondeductible traditional IRA contribution and an ordinary Roth IRA contribution, the Roth IRA contribution is always a better choice regardless of what one has in other retirement accounts.
Thank you very much for the explanation. If I understand correctly I'm stuck with traditional IRA mixed pre-tax and after-tax until I retire which might be for years since I'm 52 so will need to keep all the 8606 forms until I start to make withdrawals.
When I get a new job I can open a new 401K and make the max contribution at that time would I be able to open a individual Roth IRA to make after-tax contributions instead of making contributions to the existing traditional IRA (leave the traditional IRA as is by letting the investment run itself?) or that's not an options as I might end up with 3 retirement accounts (401k, traditional IRA, Roth IRA) just Thinking out loud not like I have extra money to contribute to ha ha.. thought please...
Sure, you can do that. I have 403b funds from my old employer, pre-tax 403b from my current employer, after-tax (Roth) 403b from my current employer, and a Roth IRA. They all happen to be with the same broker, so I don't need multiple apps, but your accounts are only limited by what you want to keep track of.
The only way to clear the mixed traditional IRA situation is to convert it to a Roth IRA. You will pay tax on a pro-rated basis (if 20% of the account is after-tax, you would pay tax on 80% of the conversion). Whether you convert or not depends on what your tax rate is today vs what you think your tax rate will be when you retire. For which you need a crystal ball. But there is no harm in leaving the mixed traditional IRA alone until you retire. You will only generate a new form 8606 if you add or withdraw funds from the traditional IRA during a particular year. So you will want to keep the most recent one, whatever year that is, even if a new one is not generated.
There will be an income level where you can't contribute to a Roth IRA any more. The income limits for 2025 and 2026 are here,
https://skloff.com/ira-contribution-and-income-limits-for-2025-and-2026/
If your income reaches the limit where a Roth IRA is not allowed, and you have not maxed out your 401k, go ahead and do that first. If you max out your 401k and still want to contribute to retirement, you will have to add more after-tax (non-deductible) money to the traditional IRA, you would be stuck with that as an option at this point.
Thank you so much for explanations and guidance I greatly appreciate it. Lots to think of 🤔
Have a great Holiday!
@CP01 wrote:
Thank you so much for explanations and guidance I greatly appreciate it. Lots to think of 🤔
Have a great Holiday!
And if you like the idea of Roth funds (not deducted now, and no tax when you retire), ask any new employer if they offer Roth accounts in their 401k. Most do, although it is not required. And even if they do offer a Roth option, it can only be used for your contributions. Any employer match must go into a pre-tax account. But it's a way of getting Roth money even if you can't contribute to an IRA because of your income.
Good to know. Will ask when I get a job, hope I get a one soon never thought it would take this long :(
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