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Oliver7088
Returning Member

Mikitary pension

I am ex spouse married 7 years. Divorce in 1998. There is no 1009R My ex mails the IRS and me a 1099R.  I do not receive alimony. The divorce decree says pension is property agreement to be treated as asset in marriage and alimony.  I received funds direct deposit through military allotment.  He's retired now.  Do I owe any taxes?  They take takes out of his 1099R.

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21 Replies
Oliver7088
Returning Member

Mikitary pension

* not alimony.  Treated as an asset acquired during marriage.  Each party pays their own taxes. 

Mikitary pension

My friend gets part of her ex's military pension and they send her a 1099R for her part.   You should ask them why you haven't been getting  your own 1099R.   Is your ex making up a 1099R to give you?  Does he get a 1099R from the Military?

Mikitary pension

Your ex cannot issue you  a form 1099-R because  he is not a legal retirement plan.   If you are getting a portion of his pension directly from the pension  then the government  should be mailing you a 1099-R with your name on it.  

Mikitary pension

Or is he getting your 1099R from the govt and sending it to you?  You need to update your address with the pension plan.  

Oliver7088
Returning Member

Mikitary pension

Yes. He makes his own 1088R form to send to me.  He is deducting his taxes and writing me a letter telling me how much he paid to me from his retirement.  I do not meet the required military law 10/10 rule, (married 10 years) so the military finance office does not send ne the money and therefore does not issie me a1099R form.

Mikitary pension

An individual cannot issue a 1099-R form ... only pension companies issue them.   He is technically paying you alimony and should be reported as such on your and his returns. 

 

Can I deduct alimony I paid to my ex-spouse?

 

You can deduct alimony paid to a former spouse as long the divorce or separation agreement is executed by December 31, 2018.

Alimony payments resulting from agreements executed after that date can no longer be deducted due to the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) that Congress signed into law on December 22, 2017. The same holds true for agreements modified after 2018 if the new version specifically states that the TCJA treatment of nondeductible alimony payments now applies.

To enter your alimony payments:

  1. Open (continue) your return in TurboTax.
  2. Inside the program, search for alimony paid and then click the "Jump to" link in the search results.
  3. Answer Yes on the Alimony Paid to a Former Spouse screen and follow the onscreen instructions.

 

Oliver7088
Returning Member

Mikitary pension

The divorce decree states otherwise see original post.

Mikitary pension

@Oliver7088 

If you want to change the status quo, you will need to see an accountant who has experienced in these matters, because we don’t have a lot of experience with the situation.

 

There are two basic principles here that sound like they are in conflict with each other but really or not. One is that transfer of assets during a divorce is not a taxable event. However the second is that you always pay tax on a tax deferred retirement account whenever you take the income, because no tax was paid on the contributions.  If we apply that to a private company where an employee has a 401(k), when spouse can be required to transfer a portion of the 401(k) balance to the other spouse and that transfer is not a taxable event. However, when the ex spouse withdraws the money, they will pay income tax because withdrawing money from a tax deferred retirement account is always taxable, even though the initial asset transfer was not taxable.

 

Applying these concepts to your situation, currently you are paying tax on the portion of the retirement income that you receive, and your ex pays tax on the portion of the retirement income that they keep for themselves.  This is correct and proper, because even though the transfer is not considered taxable alimony, the recipient of tax deferred retirement income always pays the tax.  And this is what would be happening if you met the 10 year rule and were getting your own 1099R.

 

If you want to change the arrangement, the only other way to handle it would be for your ex to receive the entire retirement income and pay all the tax on it, then send you a payment.   Because this is not alimony according to your divorce agreement, he could not deduct the amounts he sent to you and they would not be taxable to you. That means he’s paying tax on the entire amount and you’re paying no tax, so the only equitable solution would be for him to reduce the amount of money that he sends you. He would send you the after-tax portion and not the gross portion.  


Because of the way the tax brackets work and because of how Social Security is taxed, it is likely that if he was paying tax on the entire pension, he would be paying more taxes than the two of you pay in combination under the current system, so there would be less money to go around for you.

 

If you were to demand the full gross portion and not pay any tax on it, you would not be supported by any equitable argument or by the law, and your ex would have every right to go back to the court and ask for a modification.  (In fact however, given the status quo, it sounds like you would have to go to court to request a modification, and you would not be able to make an equity argument because you would be asking for your ex to pay all the taxes and for you to get the money tax free which would be inequitable to your spouse.

 

I hope this explanation helps you understand the tax position in the equities of the situation. Someone always has to pay tax on a pretax pension.  

Oliver7088
Returning Member

Mikitary pension

Opus you didn't mention the 1099R form.  The military pension is not a 401K plan.  The divorce was filed in the state of Virginia in 1998 with a final order of divorce granted. We both signed, inequity or not. Taxes are a federal matter.  Correct?

IMO most accountants don't deal with military law or the 10/10 rule.

My ex pays all the taxes on the entire amount.  Yes he cannot deduct his portion as alimony per the divorce decree.  My portion of his military retirement is per the decree a property settlement.... something we both contributed to during our marriage (during his active duty status, I moved 7 times to support his career).

 

 

 

 

Oliver7088
Returning Member

Mikitary pension

Update.. the divorce decree states that I will receive a portion of his 

GROSS retirement based on an equation of years of marriage and years of his service.  So maybe the military could send me a 1099R. but they won't because of their strict rules!

Mikitary pension

Fine ... if they don't pay you direct then they will not issue a 1099-R  however your EX also cannot issue a 1099-R.    If the divorce decree says it is alimony and it became final before  1/1/2019 then it is considered taxable income.  You do not need any "form" to enter the amount you were actually paid.   And the ex cannot give you any of the withholding he had on his 1099-R form ... you must figure out a way to pay the taxes needed in another way. 

Mikitary pension


@Oliver7088 wrote:

Update.. the divorce decree states that I will receive a portion of his 

GROSS retirement based on an equation of years of marriage and years of his service.  So maybe the military could send me a 1099R. but they won't because of their strict rules!


"My portion of his military retirement is per the decree a property settlement.... something we both contributed to during our marriage (during his active duty status, I moved 7 times to support his career)."

 

Again, the property division is not taxable, but retirement income from a tax-deferred pension is always taxable to someone.  In other words, he transferred something valuable to you in 1998--a future interest in retirement income.   That future interest had a present value in 1998 that you did not pay tax on.  But someone has to pay tax on the income when it was withdrawn, because no income tax was paid during the period in which the money was vested.

 

If the court order says he pays you a portion of his gross pension, then I would say that you owe income tax on your portion and he owes income tax on his portion.  This would normally be accomplished by getting a QDRO (qualified domestic relations order) requiring the pension trustee or IRA custodian to put a portion of the money into an account in your name, make payments directly to you, and issue you a 1099-R for whatever is paid to you.   Most courts understand this and will make each party responsible for their own taxes on their own share of the income.

 

This should apply to a military pension as well, but it would not surprise me if the government exempted itself from their own rules.  

 

Contra @Critter-3 , I think he can issue you a 1099-R.  See this from the IRS general instructions for 1099 forms.

 

Nominee/middleman returns.

Generally, if you receive a Form 1099 for amounts that actually belong to another person, you are considered a nominee recipient. You must file a Form 1099 with the IRS (the same type of Form 1099 you received) for each of the other owners showing the amounts allocable to each. You must also furnish a Form 1099 to each of the other owners. File the new Form 1099 with Form 1096 with the IRS Submission Processing Center for your area. On each new Form 1099, list yourself as the "payer" and the other owner as the "recipient." On Form 1096, list yourself as the "Filer." A spouse is not required to file a nominee return to show amounts owned by the other spouse. The nominee, not the original payer, is responsible for filing the subsequent Forms 1099 to show the amount allocable to each owner.

 

And see this from the IRS instructions for the 1099-R.

 

Military retirement annuities.

Report payments to military retirees or payments of survivor benefit annuities on Form 1099-R. Report military retirement pay awarded as a property settlement to a former spouse under the name and TIN of the recipient, not that of the military retiree.

 

 

If I was your ex, I would issue a 1099-R to you for your portion, and I would only report and pay taxes on my portion.

 

If your argument is that you are entitled to a gross amount tax-free and that your ex is responsible for all the taxes, you will likely have an fight on your hand, but I don't know who with.  Probably with your ex in the Virginia family court.  Federal law generally overrides state law, including tax matters.  If the IRS accepts his 1099-R, they will expect you to report the income and pay tax.  If you argue, and the IRS concludes that your spouse is a nominee with respect to your portion of his military pension, that's how the IRS will handle it.  The state court could modify the order by giving you a bigger percentage of his pension, so you net out the same, or could issue a ruling that it was their intent for your ex to pay all the taxes, and order him to reimburse you.  But if the IRS concludes that as a matter of federal law, the pension settlement was a property transfer, they will probably agree with your ex.

Oliver7088
Returning Member

Mikitary pension

Va. is NOT a community property state.  Divorce is a state matter.  No QDRO set up because military pension is not a 401K.

 

Where did you get your information from?  Is this a current IRS law for the 1099R form?

 

Per signed court order it states wifes portion of retirement to be considered an asset acquired during the marriage not alimony.  Ex wrote it off as alimony which is not correct.

 

Looks like I win!

Oliver7088
Returning Member

Mikitary pension

It's also not an annuity.

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