Does "traditional IRA" include rollover IRA's (from a business 401k) when completing IRA worksheet, does the value of all traditional IRA's include or exclude an rollover IRA (from a business 401k)?

[lt_usa]

I did a conversion of a portion of an existing Rollover IRA (rolled over from business 401K years ago) to an existing Roth IRA in December 2021. 

What IRAs do I need to include for the TT question, "Enter the total value of all your traditional IRA, SEP, and SIMPLE IRA accounts on December 31,2021.  This information is sent by mail on Form 5498.  Do not include Roth IRAs."

When I did a similar rollover in 2019, I received from Vanguard two 2019 Form 5498 (IRA Contributions Information): one for my Traditional IRA; and, one for my Roth IRA (including the new 2019 Roth conversion amount).  However, I did receive one for my rollover IRA (from an employer 401K) at Vanguard from which I did the conversion from.

If I recall correctly, the value of my after-tax Traditional at Broker1, my pre-tax Traditional IRA at Broker1, my pre-tax Traditional IRAs at other brokers, and my Rollover IRA (from 401K) at Broker1, were all used for the total year end value of IRAs.  But, not my Roth IRA.  Correct or incorrect?

It is too, early for 2021's forms but I expect the same two forms that I received in 2019, which did not include one for the Rollover IRA.

Thanks, in advance.

As a side note, I had a tax accountant do the return in 2019 and I don't have the worksheets.

[DianeW777 · Accepted solution]

Correct.  The Roth IRA would not be needed. However, if you rolled a pre-tax amount because it was not a Roth account, to the Roth IRA, then that amount will be taxable in the current tax year. 

The question you present with the specific wording is asking for only the contributions of all IRAs, except the Roth IRA.  These accounts combined could have both pre-tax and after-tax contributions. This would NOT include any Roth IRA contributions since ALL contributions are 'after-tax'.

Currently, the Form 5498 has a box for each type of IRA.  Form 5498 reports various types of IRA contributions you make in a number of reporting boxes.

• Box 1 shows the amount you contributed to a traditional IRA.
• Box 9 reports the amounts contributed to a Savings Incentive Match Plan for Employees (SIMPLE) IRA.
• Box 10 covers the amounts you put into a Roth IRA.
• Although a rollover or conversion of assets from one retirement plan into an IRA isn’t deductible, they are considered contributions and will be reported in boxes 2 and 3 of Form 5498.
• The links below will be show the purpose of the forms which may also assist you.
  • What is IRS Form 5498?
  • What is IRS Form 8606?

[Opus 17 · Accepted solution]

Your "traditional" IRAs are your pre-tax IRAs, regardless of how they were funded (contributions or rollover or recharacterization).  Roth IRAs are not included in "traditional IRAs" for this question. 

[lt_usa]

Thank you to both Opus 17 and DianeW777 for your answers.

That is what I thought, but I saw references I found never specifically mentioned Rollover IRAs and that made me wonder.  Especially since, when I did my 2019 conversion of some of a Rollover IRA to the Roth IRA, Broker 1 did not send F5498 for the Rollover IRA (from 401K) that was used in the conversion.  Broker 1 send me F5498 did for the post-tax traditional IRA and for the Roth IRA showing the incoming conversion amount from the Rollover IRA (which they did not send an F5498 for).  I had to go to my accounts online that year and look up those year end 12/31/2019 balances.   I'll have to call Broker 1 and ask them there logic.  By the way, Broker1 is one of the largest mutual fund firms.

[Opus 17]

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@lt_usa wrote:

Thank you to both Opus 17 and DianeW777 for your answers.

That is what I thought, but I saw references I found never specifically mentioned Rollover IRAs and that made me wonder.  Especially since, when I did my 2019 conversion of some of a Rollover IRA to the Roth IRA, Broker 1 did not send F5498 for the Rollover IRA (from 401K) that was used in the conversion.  Broker 1 send me F5498 did for the post-tax traditional IRA and for the Roth IRA showing the incoming conversion amount from the Rollover IRA (which they did not send an F5498 for).  I had to go to my accounts online that year and look up those year end 12/31/2019 balances.   I'll have to call Broker 1 and ask them there logic.  By the way, Broker1 is one of the largest mutual fund firms.

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It's unclear what you are asking for and why you are asking about your balance at the end of 2019.

If you are withdrawing money from an IRA (or doing a Roth conversion), and one or more of your traditional IRA accounts has a non-deductible basis, then you need to know the non-deductible basis and your total year-end balance of traditional IRAs.  If you aren't doing a withdrawal, you don't need those facts.

The rollover from a pre-tax 401(k) to a traditional IRA doesn't really need a tax form and isn't a taxable event.  Then, if you convert some of that traditional IRA to a Roth IRA, and you have a non-deductible basis in any IRA account, you have to account for that on form 8606 which needs the non-deductible basis and the account values.  If you had a non-deductible basis in 2019, that should have been reported on your 2019 return form 8606, which will also give you your remaining non-deductible basis.  It's not clear why you need your 2019 numbers now unless you are trying to correct your 2019 tax return. 

[lt_usa]

I had referenced the 2019 conversion in my original post as a comparison to indicate, simply, what documents that I received for my 2019 Roth conversion (because I felt not all relevant F5498s were provided that year).

It is a non-issue since you respondents confirmed my belief that a Rollover IRA is a Traditional IRA for Total IRA purpose with regards to the Roth conversion forms.  Thanks, and sorry for the confusion.

[Opus 17]

@lt_usa 

No apologies needed, as long as you have the information you need.

Cheers.