TurboTax Early Rounding Issues creating LARGE variances between TurboTax Produced Return and Brokerage 1099-B Data

[Rerun48]

@DJG I am not sure I follow this explanation - it's as tone deaf as everything we've heard so far.  Intuit and TT should be listening to the voice of the customer.  It wasn't broke but they decided to "fix it".  I was lucky that the rounding only adversely impacted me on one wash sale and I was given a fix by a TT expert on another thread which I have shared on on this thread.  But I spent the better part of an afternoon painstakingly having to cross-check my 1099 to Form 8949 to be sure there was no discrepancy of note - maybe a $1?  Again - I'm lucky - but who the heck wants to pay for software that you have to double check?  I want to say I've been using TT since the late 1990s, but who can remember back that far?  It has been a godsend, especially since we can download out 1099s, but if i have to spend hours of time manually checking - what am I paying for?  I suspect I'll probably stop my auto subscription to TT and give a different software program a try.  May not be better, but TT loses business.

[Gene 2]

Feedback for TurboTax:

This is an unsatisfactory outcome. 

1) Please read this thread in its entirety so you understand the angst this change has caused. Look at the gyrations your customers are going through to make their 1099-Bs match.

2) Importing sales from your broker is supposed to save time.   This year it has caused me significantly more time.

3) There is still time to fix now that filing day has moved to May. 

4) If you choose not to fix it, I’ll take my business elsewhere.  

[Airguy]

Given that TT does not appear to be willing to fix this problem and my variance is only $3 I am going with what @thomaswhitmire  did - adding a dummy line item in the 1099B with the small correction required in order to make the totals add correctly.  Even though TT seems to be saying small rounding errors like this are OK with the IRS I am not convinced.

My advice to TT is to sell what people what to buy.  In this case, we want to buy a program that calculated taxes accurately (who thought that needed to be said!!).  TT can quote chapter and verse aa to why this is not really needed but I don't care and neither do any of you on this thread.  As the customers here, don't tell us why we are wrong to want what we want, sell us what we want.  Instead, if you just want to defend what you've done and not change it, then we will be someone else's customers next year.

And TT better be prepared for a class action lawsuit if you are wrong and the IRS does in fact acre about this issue.  If a whole lot of us get nailed by this TT will be hearing about it. 

My advice to TT - spend the money and make the fix.  You'll retain all your customers and eliminate the risk that you are wrong about what the IRS will accept and that there is legal exposure for us and you.

[davidL88]

Anyone can confirm if any alternative tax preparation software doesn't have this rounding error problem? I need one that can import from investment firms while not rounding for each transaction, as I have large number of transactions of small amount each. The variances are very large when they add up if rounding is applied for each item.

[Anonymous]

@davidL88 My observations based on my return:

TT:  TurboTax

TA:  ???? (probably can't name it here, but should be easy to guess)

The 3 columns of interest are "proceeds", "cost" and "gain/loss".

TT:  it seems to start with "proceeds" and "cost" columns, and rounds each.  This introduces error.  It then uses these rounded values to compute the "gain/loss".  This introduces even more error.

TA:  it seems to start with the directly imported "gain/loss" column, and rounds.   It then works backwards to adjust "proceeds" and "cost" columns if necessary in order to balance each line entry so that proceeds-cost=gain/loss.   It's possible that it might also round the "proceeds" and "cost" entries, but then again it might not....again I think the software just trying to balance out each line at this point.

Overall, TA appears to work better since it seems to start with the "gain/loss" column (although it does too round here).  The totals is still off by 1 or 2 dollars on the short term capital gains for me vs 10's of dollars for TT.  But again, there appears to be less error involved here since it seems to start with actual imported "gain/loss" value.

[MaxTax00]

I wish I could have been a fly on the wall (or maybe zoom meeting?) when TurboTax decided "Hey, let's make our software worse and less customer friendly because that is what others in the industry do."  It would be like Amazon deciding to take two weeks to mail all packages because that is how long it takes their competitors. Frankly, just bizarre even if it does not lead to any IRS letters for their customers.  I used to think TurboTax had a pretty large moat around their Tax business. I never even considered switching because it "just worked." This year it has been such a chore to use the product that I have gone from being  somewhat of a TurboTax ambassador to now looking to find an alternative ASAP.

[Critter-3]

If everyone would simply enter the information manually using the summary option then you would not need to complain.  Using my professional program that is all I ever do is enter section summaries and have had no issue in 30 years in the business.   As a note ... I have never ever seen the rash of wash sales under 50 cents like I have this year. 

[Rerun48]

To be quite honest, if I am paying for a tax program, I expect it to work and for me to have to do precious little manually, so your response does nothing for me.  I think TT should revert to what they had before and the rest is just noise and justification.  I'll find some place else to spend my money if I have to do things manually.

[MaxTax00]

@Critter-3 

While I believe you, I doubt you have dealt with many relatively active traders then. A number of adjustments that exceeds 100 is pretty easy to get when dealing with many of the non-covered ETFs and wash sales that go along with active investing.  Maybe in that case you you just summarize and mail in the 1099-B.

[Anonymous]

@davidL88 (2nd try)

My first comment must have been policed by the TT moderators here.

TT:  rounds first at the cost and proceeds column.  Introduces error.  Then rounds the gain/loss column, which introduces even more error.

From what I can tell, other consumer software seems to round at the gain/loss column first and then work backwards to the cost and proceeds column, which results in less error.  

[PlotinusRedux]

@davidL88 I don't know one that doesn't require manually entering wash sales--if you find one, let me know.

@MaxTax00 I know.  I deal with a lot of international taxes in a Point of Sale program and regularly have to explain to business that Round(x) + Round(y) is not equivalent to Round(x + y).  At least they could have made it an option--select "Round correctly or Round incorrectly"

@Critter-3 Wash sales have to be itemized, either on form 8949 or by attaching the 1099-B.  The issue is not wash sales less than $0.50--the issue (1) Every wash sale, whatever its amount, can be off up to $0.99 because all 3 values--cost, proceeds, and disallowed amount are rounded independently; (2) The rounding is leading to values hundreds of dollars off from the totals on our 1099-B's, for many people reporting hundreds *more* in gains than they really had; (3) For those of us who purchased the desktop edition of TT, we can't even attach the 1099-B as a PDF because only the web version allows that--we'd have to physically mail it in; (4) This was a change in this year's version of TT none of us were made aware of beforehand; (5)  This change should have at least been made an *option* to the rounding used in previous years; and (6) We have spent literally months trying to get an answer to this, and just now got one after @DJG literally found the CEO's email and emailed him directly.

[PlotinusRedux]

@DJG thanks again for getting us an answer.

However, if we go with the answer they gave you--that TT's rounding is fine and the IRS doesn't care about a few hundred dollars--you at least have an email from them, the rest of us can only reference a post by someone who doesn't work for Intuit about something Intuit allegedly told him (I don't doubt you, I mean what the IRS might say).

Since you've been in touch with the CEO, etc., could you encourage them to officially post this information somewhere on the forum or website so we can all show the IRS "this was Intuit's official guidance"?

[Gene 2]

:

@PlotinusRedux  wrote:  

“Since you've been in touch with the CEO, etc., could you encourage them to officially post this information somewhere on the forum or website so we can all show the IRS "this was Intuit's official guidance"?”

This is an excellent idea.  TT should go on record with their position.  

[jtwros1040]

I am trying to enter data from a 1099-B.  I type the request in the' Search' box on top right of screen and get'' 'jump to link'' etc but when I click on it get nothing on the screen  In one place Turbo says input the form--I just have a simple PC--no way to input the form.  In another place Turbo says click Yes to "Add an investment sale?" or or "Did you sell mutual; funds?"  But there is no box to click Yes in either case.   

Thanks in advance

[PlotinusRedux]

Following @DJG 's example, I have written to the CEO asking (1) for an official post by an Intuit employee stating what they told DJG rather than making a user here responsible for communicating their official guidance; and (2) that refunds for the Desktop edition be fast tracked, since their communication with him stated the only way to report capital gains equal to our 1099-B's is by entering the summary totals in TT and attaching or snail-mailing our 1099-B's themselves, where the web version allows attaching it as a PDF but the desktop version cannot.

If I get a response, hopefully it will be in a form where I can just post a link to an official response directly from Inuit on the forum or their website.

@DJG has done us a great service getting a response after months of us all trying.  But if Intuit's official response is only going to be through him relaying their response--they really need to pay him for doing their job and so they are bound by what he had to tell the rest of us since they won't state it officially.