Is there a way to BACK-OUT of a Filed and Accepted Tax Return

[Roninroundrock]

I am doing a 2019 Amended Return, but there is a BUG in TurboTax when doing an Amended Return (at least in my situation, for some reason).  There is a long Post on this unresolved problem, so I won't go into it here - but I am going to have to do most of the work manually.

The problem is that I have to change the Basis of about a dozen stock transactions on the Form 8949s.  What I have done is started with the originally filed 2019 Return - made the corrections to the Basis on these 9 stocks (14 transactions) - and everything lines up and balances.

EXCEPT Turbotax won't re-do the Tax Calculations NEVER MIND, I FIGURED THAT OUT (SORT-OF).

I HAVE A LOSS ON SCHEDULE D, of which Turbotax (IRS) limits to -$3,000 on the 1040 - so therefore my tax liability will not change because the Amendments only increased the Schedule D loss.

HOWEVER, I still would like to understand why when I start TurboTax using my filed TurboTax file from 2019 - why do the Tax Due, Tax Refund displays at the top of TurboTax show Zero instead of the Refund I was due to receive - i.e. when I did my 2019 taxes, after subtracting my taxes due from my Quarterlies I paid, I got a refund of several thousand (yes, overpaid) dollars, which showed up at the top of Turbotax as a "Tax Refund". 

Sorry, but I don't remember if the Tax Refund went to Zero at the top of Turbotax when I filed the Return, but right up to the very end, Turbotax was showing Tax Refund of several thousand dollars and I am wondering why that does not show up when I reload, to continue the 2019 Return - and yes, I guess it was a Re-start (new tax return so-to-speak) as opposed to a "Continue"

I hope this is an easy question (i.e. the Restart as opposed to Continue just noted above) - with maybe the only other thing to consider was that I had the 2019 Refund Forwarded to my 2020 taxes and this was a Filed and Accepted Return.  And if this is a "Restart vs. Continue" reason, is there a way to get back to the "Continue" point given that I only have the Accepted Tax File available to start with.

ron, now in kansas

[rjs]

You didn't say whether you are using TurboTax Online or the C/D Download TurboTax software. If you are using the CD/Download software you should have kept an unmodified copy of the original filed return, and saved another copy with a different file name to amend. Then you can get back to the original by opening the saved original file.

TurboTax Online saves only one copy of your tax return. Once you make changes, such as by amending it, there is no way to get back to the original. There is no backout or undo.

When you start an amended return it resets the Refund/Tax Due to zero. That's how an amended return works. It will then show the additional refund or tax due caused by the changes in the amended return. Since your amendment is not changing your tax, it will remain zero.

I don't know what you mean by "Restart." There is no Restart option in TurboTax.

[macuser_22]

An amended return is the *difference* from the original return.    You cannot amend until the original return has been totally processed and any refund or tax due is received or paid.    Amending always starts a zero.    If the amended return results in an *additional* refund in addition to what you have already received then that is what should show.    If you owe then that is what you must pay.  

For example if you had a $1,200 refund on the original return and you made a mistake and it should have been $1,300, then the refund of the amended return should be $100 because you already have the $1,200.

[Roninroundrock]

macuser_22

Yes, I know how it is supposed to work, but it doesn't (Amended 2017 & 2018 Returns worked fine).  See my long post on "Amended Return does not go to Zero".

EXCEPT YOU MAY HAVE HIT ON MY PROBLEM THAT EVERYONE HAS OVERLOOKED (even 2 hours with TT technician).

OK, I know I saved the TT file after I filed my Returns (FED & ST) and I know I checked the filing status later, after I filed the Returns and both were accepted - HOWEVER I am NOT SURE I ever RE-SAVED the TT file AFTER it was officially ACCEPTED by the IRS - so does the TT file really need to be saved "after" being "sort-of officially" accepted.

If I have my 2019 TurboTax reload the Filed return, the 1st thing it says is:

- Let's check the status of your return

- I click on Continue

- then I am taken to the screen that says, in bold, Your Federal and State Returns have been "Accepted"

And to sort of answer my question above about saving the file after being Accepted, I re-save the TT file at that point, giving me a new current date and time of now, today.  Then I go back and try the Amend process again - bring up TurboTax again, checking the Amend Return option and then using the just saved file as input for the Amend process - and it still comes up saying that I am due a Tax Refund of $13,492 (at least that figure, although completely bad, is consistent).

So any other ideas - because I thought you may have hit on the problem.  Or is it possible that the TT file, even though Turbotax claims the Return has been Accepted, that it really hasn't (i.e. lacking some official response from the IRS).

Another really strange happening (documented in the the Refund does not go to Zero Post) is that when going through the Amend process and using the original 2019 Filed Return as input, as soon as the TT file to be amended is loaded (opened), Turbotax resaves the file, same name, but with a new current date, wiping out the original file - an act I have called unconscionable.   And it did the same with the re-saved file I described 2 paragraphs above.  This alone says something is terribly wrong because I have NEVER seen Turbotax do that before - resaving a file on its own, wiping out the original - it always asks.

Still hanging out there - with a lot of things not lining up - but running out of time - really want to do the 2019 Amended Return this year.  Currently looking at over-riding the bogus 1040-X entries and going with that since I have the good 2017 & 2018 1040-X Returns to guide me.

ron, now in kansas

[rjs]

Save a copy of the original return with a different name, and don't use that for amending. Just keep it so you have an unmodified copy in case TurboTax saves without asking.

(It does sometimes save without asking. I don't know exactly what makes it happen, but it does seem to happen at some point in the amending process. I agree that it shouldn't do that, but since you know that it does, you can protect yourself by saving an extra copy.)

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I go back and try the Amend process again - bring up TurboTax again, checking the Amend Return option and then using the just saved file as input for the Amend process - and it still comes up saying that I am due a Tax Refund of $13,492

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It doesn't reset the refund to zero immediately when you start to amend. Does it reset if you go a few steps further in the amend process - at least up to the screen that asks you what you need to change?

[Roninroundrock]

OK, yes - I never use my original TT file in these situations.  I save the original saved in at least 2 places and I have made copies (at least 8 or 10) trying to get the Amended Tax process to work (Thank goodness since it over-writes the original file used as its input) - and have spent a lot of time a couple of days ago running all of them down and deleting them because Turbotax was coming up and offering me about 8 returns to continue - which was driving me crazy because you can't tell where the TT files are since there is no way to identify their location from the initial Turbotax display

And yes, I meant Turbotax is probably treating my load and continue as Starting" a new Tax return.  I still don't know why I don't see my 2019 Tax Refund displayed at the top of Turbotax when I first load the TT file unless that was the case.

And yes, I always get CD, running TT Deluxe on Windows 10.  I don't want to repeat all of the stuff in the Amended Return does NOT go to Zero post (another guy had the identical problem in that post), but the 1040-X is filled with all sorts of entries in the Net Change (Column B) when it is initial loaded.

About to give up - thought the "Filed and ACCEPTED" might have been the key, but it seems not.

ron, now in kansas

[macuser_22]

If you have a copy of the original .tax2019 data file from after you filed and  before you amended, then when you open that file, and go to the File tab and use the "Check Filing Status", does it say accepted?

You might use the File tab -> File a Return, and check the file by mail option and then print for filing so that TurboTax will think that you mail filed.    It might be blocking the amend because it does not think you have filed the original return  yet.

[Roninroundrock]

rjs-

I have gone through this process at least 8-10 times - and tried using at least 3-4 different TT files as input for the Amended Return process.  IE, I have tried:

1)  using the original TT file used at Filing (copies of the original, never the original)

2)  since in the Amended process, the first thing that happens is that Turbotax destroys the original file used for inputting by over-writing it, giving it a new date & time stamp - I have tried using that file as input for the Amend process

3)  I have loaded the original file (copy of), did a check filing status (finds it says Accepted) - and then saved that TT file with a new name and using that file as input to the Amended process.

Nothing works - results are always the same.  As soon as I click on the boxes of want to Amend the 2019 return and the box of Already filed and hit Continue - it starts counting up in the Refund Tax box and always comes up with the $13,492 Tax Refund due.  Just occurred to me that one of the options might be "haven't filed yet" - but I don't think that wi8ll work because it probably won't generate the 1040-X - but maybe I will give it another shot.

OK, I will also mention it here, but it is funny that ALL of the values (income, Tax Liability, Payments) in Column C  (Correct Amount column) match up exactly with my filed 2019 Return - WITH THE SINGLE EXCEPTION of the value on Line 16 (Amount paid with request for extension . . .) - and that line has $6,822 in it.  I didn't file any Extension, but did take advantage of the virus extended time to file - but filed the Return on 5/25/20 - and add that to my 2019 Tax Refund of $6,670 - you can get to the $13,492 figure.

Sorry for the above paragraph - I HAD NOTICED THE COLUMN C SIMILARITIES IN THE PAST, BUT HAD NOT EXAMINED THEM IN THE DETAIL NOTED ABOVE - which makes you question my due diligence.

I have no idea where the $6,822 value came from and it is like Turbo subtracted bogus stuff from Column C to get the bogus entries in Column A - but Column C is essentially correct.

Sorry, I should be posting the above in my Amended Return does not go to Zero post, but just mentioning it here in case it rings a bell with anyone.

ron in shawnee

[macuser_22]

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@Roninroundrock wrote:

WITH THE SINGLE EXCEPTION of the value on Line 16 (Amount paid with request for extension . . .) - and that line has $6,822 in it. 

I have no idea where the $6,822 value came from and it is like Turbo subtracted bogus stuff from Column C to get the bogus entries in Column A - but Column C is essentially correct.

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Do you have a schedule 3 in the data file?   Part II line 10?

And a Tax payments worksheet line 9?    If you do then that is a user entered amount from the interview that asks about tax payments and extensions. 

If you do then that should have been part of your original refund.    When you filed, did you do a "save as PDF" as the filing instructions suggest that you do so you can see exactally what was filed?

I do not know how you can see what you see unless something was added to the .tax file after your filed.

If you did not file with that amount and it is not owed to you then I would simply start with a copy of the original .tax file (before amending) and in the forms mode, go to the tax payments worksheet and if the bogus line 9 $6822 amount is there  delete it.

[Roninroundrock]

Yes, opening the Filed Return and going directly to Check Filing Status - it says Your Federal Return and your State Return have been "Accepted", in big bold green fonts.

Which to me, means everything should be OK.

No refund because I specified that it be Carried Forward to 2020 - don't really know if it was processed.

NO WAIT, maybe it was because of the late filing, but I did get a note from the IRS that they were doing some kind of mini-audit on the Return.  And I followed up and stayed on top of that and everything was OK, so they said.  Again, no refund - just being Carried Forward.

And in this case, the IRS fooling around with my Return would not have anything to do with me and TurboTax doing an Amended Return.

ron, now in kansas

[Roninroundrock]

maxuser-

Yes, I have a Schedule 3, but nothing on line 10.  Going to the Forms mode and looking at the 1040-X, I see:

HOW COME I CAN'T DO A PASTE - But here is what I see:

In a rectangular box above Line 16, I see

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Original 2019 Return Payments Smart Worksheet

A  Total amount paid with request for extension of time to file . . . . .0.

B  Tax Paid with original return (not including penalties)  . . . . . . 6,822

C  Additional tax paid after return was filed . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . ._________

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

16.  Total amount paid with request for extension of time to file . . . . . . .  6,822

I guess they added the A,B,C figures up and put the total on Line 16

Again, I have no idea where they got this from - I did no filing extension

AND HOW DO I PASTE INTO THESE REPLIES - IT WOULD REALLY HELP (Paste and CTRL-V don't work)

ron, now in kansas

[macuser_22]

To "paste" you must take a screenshot and add it by using the little "camera" icon like below, but on a Mac (that I use) the 1040X looks very different.    It shows that (line A) is user entered and can be deleted if incorrect.

Without knowing what was on the "Tax Payments Worksheet" line 9 *before* you tried to amend, I do not think that I can offer any more help.

[Roninroundrock]

macuser & others-

Thanks for the interest and help, suggestions.

You have given me a lot to think about and work with - EXCEPT I just can figure out where those phantom entries on the 1040-X are coming from.

Yes, I am afraid I am into just over-riding some entries on the 1040-X and going with that - unless someone at TurboTax stumbles over solution. 

I note that this is not a universal problem or pepple would be coming out of the woodworkks, let I and another user have the identical problem - so it must just be something peculiar with our returns.

Thanks again - and you will hear back from me if the problem is ever resolved.

ron, now in kansas

[macuser_22]

I can only add that in the past there have been many taxpayers that appear to have double entries that can be traced back to a user error that the tax payer entered an estimated tax payment as an extension payment  then realized the error and entered it in the correct place without going back and removing the incorrect entry (they might not have even realize that they entered it wrong since it did not show up were they expected it).    That results in the payment appearing to be a double payment.

[wcy]

Can I correct [ delete} an entry in long term capital gain & losses - tax amt not effected