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Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B


@greg71 wrote:

If you have any link or document that answers that question, I'd really appreciate it. 


Here:

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/26/1.1402(a)-4     and

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/1402

 

 

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

This is SUCH a helpful response. Thank you so much! I’m reporting a loss on my S-Corp but a profit on my two rental properties so TurbTax online generated an aggregate 8995 for me to take advantage of the QBI deduction. 

I’m wondering how I can figure out if I am required to aggregate my two businesses or if I can use your tip to “un-aggregar” them.

 

I would prefer to file online and keep them separate if possible. Could you point me to any resources that could help me determine if I need to aggregate or not?

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

I’m trying to file for 2021 and it still asks me to file by mail. I’m using quickbooks online. Will that still not work for 2021?

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

deleted

 

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

Have you figured out how to do this? I’m in the same boat as you. 

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

What a great summary!!!! Will you keep us updated on this please? Is there anyone we can reach out to?

morecode
New Member

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

Today is March 16th, 2021.  As of today, 3 separate turbo helpers were unable to change anything to allow me to efile.  I'm well below the QBI threshold, but they can't seem to help me change anything to efile.

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

Well TT, you have many users with this same issue that are waiting to e-file 2020 returns but can't (including myself). You fixed it last year, What is the delay in fixing it this year? We know you can do it, come on now. Filing a paper form is crazy for many reasons, what is this 1989?

mooed
New Member

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

You can use QBI deduction without aggregation and TT will eFile. But QBI with aggregation does not eFile. Uncheck where it asks for aggregation and (e.g. for Rentals) it will create separate components with the name of the business (rental name specific.)  

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

Has anyone moved forward with this?

 

I was going to declare QBI eligible without Safe Harbor just to efile, but that doesn't seem prudent.

 

I looked at my 2019 taxes. QBI taken, form 8995 generated. No other statements that I can find. TurboTax efiled this, IRS accepted. No problem. This all occurred AFTER RP-2019-38 was in place.

 

Why is it a problem now?

 

BTW, rp-2019-38 does not say the statement has to be manually signed.

DM26
Level 3

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

Turbotax customer support is pure garbage.  So many have asked the same question but they fail to provide a single reply or answer.  These so called “Tax Experts” seem to pick and choose what to reply to and generally only respond to questions that require simple answers.  It must be nice to hide behind the computer screen. The ability to allow efiling with this QBI issue is certainly possible as done last year.  Customer service takes the wimpy-easy way out and just simply ignores all these requests. My taxes and thousands of others have been delayed since we can’t seem to get one bit of support regarding this.   

DanielV01
Expert Alumni

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

@sailworkless0  If you claim the Safe Harbor, the IRS is not allowing e-filing, because you must sign a statement.  Can you file without the Safe Harbor provision, then?  Probably (and I'd personally recommend it, actually).  The Safe Harbor provisions require books and records.  However, if you are keeping any legitimate books and records then you should be able to claim that your rental activity is being operated as a business.  Case history regarding rental activity and Section 162 (which covers what qualifies as QBI) have stated that rental activities do rise to the level of a business when there is a profit motive.  And the more records you have, the easier it is to prove that your rental "rises to the level of a business" per Section 162, if the IRS even asks (and chances are they won't if you are generating a profit after claiming allowable expenses anyways).  But if you claim safe harbor, it is actually much more likely that you will invite an audit.  And, at least through TurboTax, the Safe Harbor Election cannot be e-filed.

 

@DM26  It has been a very challenging year, with a multitude of last-minute law changes that have forced very layered programming adjustments.  And we understand that customers want everything done correctly and timely.  We do, too.  Here in Community, agents are available to answer as many questions as possible.  But customer service is limited, as we do not have direct access to anyone's account or personal information in this public forum.  Still, it is our interest to try to assist all we can.

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DM26
Level 3

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

DanielV01

I’m having a difficult time trying to understand your post.  First let me say that I am a CPA.  Although I have not practiced in the public sector for a number of years I am quite versed at interpreting tax code.

Based on your response I can only assume you have a very limited knowledge of taxation even though your title states “Employee Tax Expert”.

 

As a so called “Employee Tax Expert” why would you make such a post as you could potentially influence actions on some taxpayers??? You state that you recommend NOT electing the safe harbor and provide some illogical reasons for it.  Perhaps you need a bit of education on this subject. 

 

In order to take the QBI deduction you must have Qualified Business Income.  Rental Activity is specifically labeled a NOT being a Qualified Business Activity for most purposes unless you are a Real Estate Professional such as a realtor and meet the minimum required hours.  The safe Harbor is what provides an exception to this.  How can you possibly make the reckless recommendation to NOT elect the Safe Harbor?

 

Last month I provided a long post to clarify things which I have copied and pasted below.  Perhaps you need to review the post to gain some clarity!!

 

Also, you provided another ignorant statement: “It has been a very challenging year, with a multitude of last-minute law changes that have forced very layered programming adjustments.”  On 12/22/17 the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017 was signed effective as of 1/1/18.  This act introduced significant changes (unlike tax year 2020).  The QBI deduction was also introduced within this act.  Programming challenges were significant with 2018 tax return software however not nearly as much since.  What’s worse is that this efiling issue has been resolved with past year software so the concept is not new.

 

Please read my prior post below and educate yourself prior to issuing any further guidance.  

 

The 20% Qualified Business Income (QBI) deduction under Section 199A is only eligible for “QUALIFIED” business.  The IRS lists business types that are qualified automatically.  RENTAL PROPERTY ACTIVITY  is generally NOT a QUALIFIED BUSINESS ACTIVITY.  The exception which does not apply to most taxpayers is if you are a Real Estate professional (realtor, etc.) who spends at least 750 hours in the business. The IRS, however, has allowed an exception for non Real Estate professionals with their rental property businesses.  These exceptions fall under SAFE Harbors (IRS notice 2019-07 and Revenue Procedure 2019-38). IRS notice 2019-07 applies to a single property while Revenue Procedure 2019-38 applies to multiple properties if the taxpayer elects to combine all their rental properties in an Enterprise.

 

When a taxpayer elects to apply the Safe Harbor to their rental(s) this makes their rental business qualify for the QBI deduction. Since income from investments is usually NOT eligible is it important to elect the Safe Harbor. IMPORTANT: In order to elect the Safe Harbor the taxpayer needs to INCLUDE A SIGNED STATEMENT to this effect and include it in their tax return.

 

In order to elect the Safe Harbor the signed statement must include that all the following (plus some additional) are true on the statement:

  1. Separate books and records are maintained to reflect income and expenses for each rental real estate enterprise.
  2. For rental real estate enterprises that have been in existence less than four years, 250 or more hours of rental services are performed per year. For other rental real estate enterprises, 250 or more hours of rental services are performed in at least three of the past five years.
  3. The taxpayer maintains contemporaneous records, including time reports, logs, or similar documents, regarding the following: hours of all services performed; description of all services performed; dates on which such services were performed; and who performed the services.

If a taxpayer has several rental properties they must satisfy the 250 hour rule for EACH property unless they aggregate their properties into an Enterprise.  By aggregating they are combining all their rentals into one business enterprise so they don’t have to satisfy the 250 hours of service for each property but instead 250 hours combined for all their properties.  In order to aggregate all rental activities together the taxpayer needs to include Schedule B (Form 8995-A) Aggregation of Business Operations and name each business and/or enterprise that are to be combined on the form.

 

For those who have decided to just not include the Safe Harbor statement on their tax return, just to be able to efile, are making a poor decision in my opinion.  Again, investment income generally is NOT eligible for the 20% QBI deduction and if the taxpayer does not elect to take the exception (Safe Harbor) the IRS has provided than if audited the 20% deduction will likely be reversed leading to an additional liability with interest and penalty.

 

Obviously electing the Safe Harbor is the best decision.

 

Numerous posts have asked whether Intuit will update the software to allow efiling with the Safe Harbor.  Many of us are on hold with filing our tax returns since this question remains unanswered.  I will certainly elect the Safe Harbor with aggregation especially since I own several rental properties.  If I am forced to file on paper I will do so however as I stated in an earlier post this poses issues.  One being that paper filing causes delay but more importantly subjects me to an additional audit risk since the possibility of data input error exists.

 

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

DM26 - well said and I am with you. I need and want to file the safe harbor with aggregation because that is what suits my situation and protects me. The IRS allows for you to e-sign the return, why wouldn't it allow you to do it with the election form?. TT found a way to resolve it in prior years, why not 2020? Come on TT, that's why we buy your program, to make it easier to file our returns, not make our life more difficult.

Tax Year Prior to 2020: Unable to efile due to QBI Deduction Worksheet Schedule B

Sailworkless0: My situation appears very similar to yours.  E.g. took QBI deduction in 2019, TT generated form 8995, and e-filed.  But not this year. :(

 

I finally decided to paper file, just mailed it in today.  I just didn't want to wait till the last minute.

 

I'm no tax expert but what DM26 writes above makes sense to me.

 

Good luck!

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