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The rented section must be exclusive use so the common areas don't count since you cannot deduct expenses for personal use areas. Read the IRS pub 27 for all the rules and examples ... look at chapter 4. https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-publication-527
okay, i got totally confused and here summarized what discussed, so which way should be best to me?
1, report rental income
- using square foot method(10%) for expense deduction, thus result $5000 net income
- to reduce net income, then besides square foot, any other divide method can be used legally?
2, not report rental income
- since rental is $1300, which is not significant below fair market price for 1 bedroom, then does this mean we face risk with IRS.
- since CA state tax is over $10K, does this mean mortgage interest, property tax cannot be deducted anymore in this case?
can anyone help me to decide which way is best for me?
thanks.
Both are options. You need not worry with option #1. Option #2 may need some explaining if you are audited. In my previous link, I gave you the example of someone's girlfriend moving in as a roomate. They would share expenses. Your situation is not so cut and dried. You are showing income in your bank account. Sometimes, when someone takes a roomate, they each pay a portion of the cable, electric bill, rent, etc. Again, this is not your case. In my opinion, you are renting a room. But that is just my opinion.
I agree with @leeloo . In most cases, roommate situations do not need to be reported as income. But, in your case ($5000 net income), you probably have a for profit rental.
Q. To reduce net income, then besides square foot, any other divide method can be used legally?
A. Yes. If your roommate has full run of the house, you can use 50% of expenses, including depreciation.
Q. Can I use 50% for expense deduction while using square foot method for depreciation to prevent higher tax bracket issue later after recapture?
A. There's a difference of opinion, in this forum. You'll have to decide or hire a pro.
If you have a formal rental arrangement with a formal lease then you have to report the rental income. Read the IRS PUB 527 for more details on your situation.
@Hal_Al . i am not sure the CPA my friend hired is a real PRO or not, but he basically used is footsquare method for both expense deduction and depreciation, but that result out a well amount rental income = more taxes. because CPA donot care saves your tax or not, they want do things quick and easy! so not sure even a "PRO" helps.
A tax pro can only work within the confines of IRS regulations. Anyone who finagles procedure "to get you a better refund" is committing fraud. Yes, any good practitioner wants to get you the best refund they can or they wouldn't be in business, but there are limits. We are also scrutinized by the IRS.
@leeloo correct, so does this make more sense and more reasonable to everyone?
1, for utility expense related, divide by number of people
2, for property related like insurance, property tax, mortgage interest use square foot method
3, for depreciation, use square foot method with no questions.
i think we can conclude this topic as i found a reference from IRS website, and here is my takeaway:
1, for some utilities it maybe able to argue divide by number of people in use, for instance 2 people in my case for water bill, electricity/gas bill (w/ assumption tenant had full run in common room), internet bill (2 people share).
2, while for other expense it would be best to only use square foot method, like insurance, property tax, mortgage interest, because they are related to rental area.
3, for depreciate, no question to use square foot method.
so i hope turbotax can make it more flexible for utility bills here in next version, otherwise modify manually later is not a big deal as well.
How to divide expenses.
If an expense is for both rental use and personal use, such as mortgage interest or heat for the entire house, you must divide the expense between rental use and personal use. You can use any reasonable method for dividing the expense. It may be reasonable to divide the cost of some items (for example, water) based on the number of people using them. The two most common methods for dividing an expense are (1) the number of rooms in your home, and (2) the square footage of your home.
i hope turbotax can make it more flexible for utility bills here in next version, otherwise modify manually later is not a big deal as well.
You're interpretation of the IRS pubs is in agreement with mine. As for program flexibility, it's already as flexible on that front as it can be without bloating the program even more. The ability to enter the data manually, thus allowing you to do the math manually enables you do to this with the expenses.
I also rent out rooms in my primary residence. Do I call it a small business? And, what business code is it? Do I use a Sch C? In 2023, my expenses exceeded the rent because of necessary upgrades to electric, plumbing, and renovations, and I want to be able to deduct those expenses.
Renting out part of your main home is the same as renting out any house and it goes on a schedule E.
Go to the 'Wages and Income' section of your federal tax return. Scroll down to 'Rental Properties and Royalties' and click start. The system will walk you through it all.
The only thing that you have to figure out before you get started is what percentage of your house you rent out. You need the square footage of the whole house and then the square footage of the area that you rent out. That will give you the percentage of the house that is for rent and let you deduct the percentage of the bills for that section of the house.
I also rent out rooms in my primary residence. Do I call it a small business?
Renting out property "is" a business. But with rental property it produces passive income. That's why it's reported on SCH E and not SCH C. To report it as a SCH C business there are specific criteria that has to be met, and not all landlords meet that criteria.
In 2023, my expenses exceeded the rent because of necessary upgrades to electric, plumbing, and renovations, and I want to be able to deduct those expenses.
Typically, when renting out property it is "not" common to show a profit on SCH E. It's more common to show a loss each and every year. Those losses are just carried over to the next year and will accumulate/increase as the years pass. You can't actually realize those suspended losses until the tax year you sell the property. It's also just as possible you will never have any carry over losses, even though your SCH E may show a loss. That's because if conditions are met, then a maximum of $25K of those losses each year can be deducted from your other ordinary income, such as W-2 income.
As for your upgrades, how that's handled depends on what it really is. The below will help you define the difference between an upgrade, a repair and maintenance expenses. An "upgrade" is basically a property improvement, and not a repair or maintenance expense.
RENTAL PROPERTY ASSETS, MAINTENANCE/CLEANING/REPAIRS DEFINED
Property Improvement.
Property improvements are expenses you incur that Improve, restore, or otherwise “better” the property. Basically, they retain or add value to the property.
Betterments:
Expenses that may result in a betterment to your property include expenses for fixing a pre-existing defect or condition, enlarging or expanding your property, or increasing the capacity, strength, or quality of your property. An example of a pre-existing condition or defect in this context would be something such as foundation repair (slab jacking) or some other, hidden and costly, anomaly.
Restoration:
Expenses that may be for restoration include expenses for replacing a substantial structural part of your property, repairing damage to your property after you properly adjusted the basis of your property as a result of a casualty loss, or rebuilding your property to a like-new condition.
Adaptation:
Expenses that may be for adaptation include expenses for altering your property to a use that isn’t consistent with the intended ordinary use of your property when you began renting the property. Adding a wheelchair ramp would be an example.
Expenses for these types of costs are entered in the Assets/Depreciation section and depreciated over time. Property improvements can be done at any time after your initial purchase of the property. It does not matter if it was your residence or a rental at the time of the improvement. It still adds value to the property.
To be classified as a property improvement, two criteria need to be met:
1) The improvement must become "a material part of" the property. For example, remodeling the bathroom, new cabinets or appliances in the kitchen. New carpet. Replacing that old Central Air unit.
2) The improvement must retain or add "real" value to the property. In other words, when the property is appraised by a qualified, certified, licensed property appraiser, he will appraise it at a higher value, than he would have without the improvements.
There are rules that allow you to just flat-out expense and deduct some property improvements instead of capitalizing and depreciating them, if the total cost of the improvement was less than $2,500. It’s referred to as “safe harbor di-minimis” But depending on the specific situation, this may or may not be beneficial. Just be aware that not every property improvement that cost less than $2,500 qualifies for this. If this interest you, the rules can get complex. So a good place to start reading is on the IRS website at https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/tangible-property-final-regulations. The stuff on di-minimis starts about one page down.
Cleaning & Maintenance
Those expenses incurred to maintain the rental property and its assets in the usable condition the property and/or asset was designed and intended for. Routine cleaning and maintenance expenses are only deductible if they are incurred while the property is classified as a rental. Cleaning and maintenance expenses incurred in the process of preparing the property for rent for the very first time are not deductible.
Repair
Those expenses incurred to return the property or its assets to the same usable condition they were in, prior to the event that caused the property or asset to be unusable. Repair expenses incurred are only deductible if incurred while the property is classified as a rental. Repair costs incurred in the process of preparing the property for rent for the very first time are not deductible.
Additional clarifications: Painting a room does not qualify as a property improvement. While the paint does become “a material part of” the property, from the perspective of a property appraiser, it doesn’t add “real value” to the property.
However, when you do something like convert the garage into a 3rd bedroom for example, making a 2-bedroom house into a 3-bedroom house adds “real value”. Of course, when you convert the garage to a bedroom, you’re going to paint it. But you will include the cost of painting as a part of the property improvement – not an expense separate from it.
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