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bigbunny101
Returning Member

11

 
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10 Replies

11

At the same time I bought around 30 put contracts of same stock which would equal to 3000 shares of same, all of them at a loss ranging from few hundreds to few thousands

 

please clarify what you mean by this. buying puts creates no loss until they are disposed of through sale or expiration 

 

however, buying puts does not create a wash sale even if you sold the underlying stock at a loss.  being long the put gives you the right to sell.  so you can buy back the put to close, let it expire unexercised or buy stock to cover the exercise of the put. only if the buy of the stock is done within 31 days of the loss sale of the stock would there be a wash sale.

 

a different story is you short the put. You can also turn a sale of stock into a wash sale by selling put options. This rule is not automatic. It applies only if the put option is deep in the money — and there’s no precise standard as to when a put option is deep enough in the money for the rule to apply. The rule applies if it appears, at the time you sell the put option, that there is no substantial likelihood it will expire unexercised. In this circumstance, selling the put option can be roughly equivalent to buying the stock.

 

 

GeorgeM777
Expert Alumni

11

@bigbunny101... and to follow-up on the response from @Mike9241, regarding question 1 -  No, it appears the wash sale does apply to your option purchase.  Options to acquire or options to sell stock are considered securities.  That means that if an option is sold at a loss and then replaced, it is included in the wash sale rule.

 

Regarding question 2 - please clarify what you mean.

 

Regarding question 3 - generally, brokerage firms follow the FIFO rule which is first in, first out.  Thus, as stock or options are sold, any losses from same will match to the initial purchase date.  In other words, you cannot chose to decide to match certain sales of options or stock to certain purchases of options or stock.  However, this is the general rule and you may be able to make other adjustments with your brokerage firm where you can select which sales of stock or options you want to match to which purchases.    

 

As a way of background, the Wash-Sale rule was created by the IRS to disallow the loss deduction from the sale of securities if repurchased by a seller or spouse within the Wash-Sale period. The Wash-Sale period is defined as 30 days before and 30 days after the sale date, totaling 61 days (including the sale date).  Thus, when you have a Wash-Sale the following applies:

  • you are not allowed to claim the loss deduction
  • an adjustment must be made by adding the loss to the cost basis of security repurchased
  • the holding period of repurchased securities includes that of securities you sold

 

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bigbunny101
Returning Member

11

 
bigbunny101
Returning Member

11

 

11

Why are you worried about this?

Your option trades and stock trades are all covered transactions which means the broker tracks it all for you.

In the end if you are an active trader, you close all the positions sooner rather than later at which point the wash sale rule is irrelevant.

bigbunny101
Returning Member

11

 

11

A put or call triggers a stock wash sale only if it is assigned or you exercise it . Then the stock related rules apply.

If you take a loss in an option and buy it again, the broker is required to track your disallowed loss and will do so.

bigbunny101
Returning Member

11

 

11

I'll withdraw that statement.

Instructions for Schedule D say I was wrong.

BBM007
New Member

11

I have just learned, no matter how you slice this, it comes up as wash sale 

Selling calls, buying puts or Selling puts while you own a stock position can results in WASH SALE unless you are keeping all transaction record and re-write the transaction (Correct /Edit them) in form 8949. IF you are doing Hundreds of transactions, it becomes very-2 difficult. furthermore, it requires enormous amount of time to manually enter those transactions.

  1. Our govt. set the rules in their Favour not ours....
  2. Need lot of time to enter & correct each transaction.
  3. Brokers report each unsold or unexercised put or call as stock transaction (2 calls sold -means you bought & sold 200 share of the underlying stock) especially if you bought & sold with in 31 days or net 61-day time (+/-30-day rule applies from the sale date).
  4. If your put option is deep in the money, you immediately create a wash sale on existing stock. there are no guidelines for this as to what is considered "Deep in the money" and varies from stock to stock. 
  5. even brokerage companies are under pressure to repost as stock sold & loss (even if you are simply trading calls/put options. 

What are our options:

  • Don't play this game (stay with stock only and that too don't buy & sell more of the same stock with in 31 days if you own an underlying stock). you might take a small profit but create a wash sale for the stock originally purchased at a higher price.
  • Keep accurate transaction record and correct the tax form 8949 (You will need to do this manually)
  • GO after US-government to fix the rules.
  • Hire a certified professional and have him/her do the taxes for you (can cost good chunk of money). You are still responsible to provide actual transaction record to fix this issue and point out all the wash sale concerns. They are NOT going to look for you on their own. 

What I learned from it-

This is NOT for an average investor unless you are methodical and do good record keeping and lucky enough to close options before the expiration date in PROFITS. 

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