I have been working with my bussiness partner together since the beginning of the year, but we never appled for an EIN. All the incomes are going in to a bank account we share, we each pay the expenses.
We got our EIN today (November).
I was told that I will not be able to claim more than $5,000 of expenses this year, they all have to be amortized over a long period.
Can we file 2 separate Schedule C and start the partnership officially next year? Does it matter how we split the income/expenses as long between the two of us we declare all the incomes/expenses?
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As far as taxes are concerned you have a partnership, whether or not you formalized it or made it official. You have to file it as a partnership. You and your partner should meet with a local accountant or tax professional to make sure you file your taxes correctly for 2022, and to get advice on how to handle the accounting and taxes for your partnership going forward.
I was told that I will not be able to claim more than $5,000 of expenses this year, they all have to be amortized over a long period.
That is true, and not just for a partnership either. On top of that, if your first year earnings are over a certain threshold, (50K I think) then the amount you can deduct in the first year is reduced. But any amount over that is just amortized (not capitalized) and deducted (not depreciated) over the next 15 years. (which is not a long period).
If you sell, close or otherwise dispose of the business before the 15 years is up, then any remaining amount is fully deducted in the last year of business.
You really should seek the services of a CPA/Accountant for at least your first year of business. Expecially if your state also taxes personal income. Doing it wrong can (and will) be costly down the road. I've seen/heard about my fair share of businesses going bankrupt before they even get off the ground, all because of fines, penalties and back taxes for having done things wrong from the beginning. Makes the cost of professional help in that first year seem like a pittance in comparison. Please seek professional help for at least the first year.
A partnership is a partnership, even if it is not registered officially with a government body. You need to file a form 1065 partnership return. The due date is March 15, not April 15, and the penalty for late filing is $195 per month per partner.
To use Turbotax, you would need to use the Business version which is only available as a download or CD for PC, there is no online or Mac version. When you prepare the 1065 you will create a K-1 statement for each partner that is added to your personal tax return along with any other income and deductions, that you can file with one of the personal versions of Turbotax.
However, it would be wise to see a professional for the first year.
My recollection of startup costs is that if less than $5000 you can expense them, if more than $5000 you can expense part and amortize part, according to a formula that I don't have handy. And any of your startup costs that are assets (equipment, etc.) is depreciated in one of the normal ways rather than being counted as part of the startup costs. But again, see an expert for your first year.
@andreeank wrote:I was told that I will not be able to claim more than $5,000 of expenses this year, they all have to be amortized over a long period.
That would be true if the expenses incurred were startup costs, but not if the expenses were incurred after the business was operational (i.e., after the partnership was open for business).
Startup costs are all eligible costs incurred before beginning to operate the business.
See https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/heres-how-businesses-can-deduct-startup-costs-from-their-federal-taxes
[Note that the difference between business assets that must be capitalized and business expenses]
see a pro to make sure the first year's return is filed properly. what someone told you was by someone that does not know the tax laws. if the first year's return is messed up that will create problems for future returns. it is unlikely you extended the partnership return which is now 8 months late - about a $1600 penalty/per partner. after the business has started there is no limit on the amount of current operating expenses that can be deducted even if they create a loss. however, the method of accounting (cash vs accrual) affects when the deduction can be taken. cash basis - only actual expenses paid during the tax year but if you put business expenses on a business credit card then the year they're put on the card is the year they're deductible.
accrual basis expenses are normally deductible in the year incurred but there can be other rules affecting deductibility.
what that person was alluding to, incorrectly, is start-up expenses - expenses incurred before the business actually starts. there are no hard rules to when a business starts it could e when the doors open, clients are actively sought, or your website goes live. (these are not all-inclusive)
the rules deducting start-up expenses if so elected
1) less than $5000.01 the actual amount
2) $5000.01 to $50,000.00 - $5000 deductible year business starts the excess amortized over 180 months
3) over $50000.00 - reduce the $5000.00 by the excess over $50,000.00 but not below zero. the rest gets amortized over 180 months
you need a tax pro that clearly knows the difference between start-up expenses and ongoing operating expenses.
That is exactly my problem I looked for advice and each accountant had a different point, so now I’m more confused:
So now it makes me wonder if we really had a partnership before we officially became one or just two people collaborating on a project. (we have no formal agreement). I want to do what is right but I want to get the best tax outcome for us.
What makes a “partnership a partnership” (before the date of formation) and what are benefits vs just filing individually?
@andreeank wrote:What makes a “partnership a partnership” (before the date of formation) and what are benefits vs just filing individually?
Generally, no formal, written agreement is required, only a "meeting of the minds" that profits will be shared.
"Two people collaborating on a project" is a partnership, even with no formal agreement.
"What makes a “partnership a partnership” (before the date of formation) and what are benefits vs just filing individually?"
Filing individually is not an option. You have a partnership. The partnership was formed when you started working together.
As soon as you agree to work together and split the profits, you have a partnership. It doesn’t require any formal paperwork just a meeting of the minds, an agreement. Formal paperwork is always recommended, in case in the future you disagree about what the agreement was. I would put your partnership agreement in writing in some form sooner or later. But as soon as you agree to work together and share the profits, you have a partnership.
Startup expenses are things that you do to prepare to engage in business but occur before you are actively engaged in ongoing business opportunities. Once you are engaged in ongoing business activities, you have regular running expenses, even if you haven’t been paid yet. For example, if you bought all the software and hardware before you began advertising your services, they would be start up expenses. But if you advertised your services and got a couple of clients while you were actively engaged in seeking business opportunities, and then started buying equipment to fit the needs of those clients, those would be business expenses, not start up expenses.
Equipment and other assets that have an expected lifetime of more than one year are handled as assets, not start up expenses. Assets must be depreciated over their useful life. In some cases, assets may be expensed during the first year or depreciated in one year rather than over several years, through the operation of the small business safe harbor election or section 179. Computers are assets, and sometimes software is an asset rather than an expense. Vehicles, tools, and other equipment would also be considered an asset. Assets are always handled via depreciation, not as start up expenses. That means you will always get a tax benefit from placing assets in your business, although it may be spread out over several years.
The kinds of start up expenses where you may be limited are other expenses that are not assets, this might be the cost of acquiring licenses, or rent on a storefront before you open, or advertising, or legal advice, or buying consumable supplies that are not considered assets. If your start up expenses (not counting your asset purchases) are less than $5000, you can deduct them all in the first year that you begin your business. If they are more than $5000, you can deduct some of them in the first year of the business and the rest must be spread out over 15 years. You never lose the ability to deduct a start up expense, the rules only change when you deduct them.
After your business is running, that is to say, when you are engaged in ongoing business activities for seeking profit, then you have operating expenses. Operating expenses are always deducted against current operating income. There is no $5000 or any other limitation on deducting your operating expenses. You can even deduct operating expenses if you haven’t been paid yet. For example, if you engage a contract where you are actively doing work and incurring expenses in 2022, but you won’t be paid until 2023, those expenses are still deductible on the 2022 tax return. If your expenses are more than your income, that creates an operating loss, and that loss is carried forward and will offset your income in a future year.
Now, I have not gone into detail about how to determine whether your software is an asset or an expense, or when do use section 179, or how to amortize start up expenses over $5000. This is partly because I don’t have the information on the top of my head and I don’t want to look it up, and partly because you really do need to seek help from a qualified professional. It sounds like none of the people you have talked to so far would meet that definition. I find it hard to imagine a qualified accountant would tell you to file on schedule C, or tell you that you can’t deduct more than $5000 of expenses, or fail to tell you that your computers are assets to be depreciated and not expenses.
It sounds like you need to interview several other CPAs to find the right one. You may also want to buy a small business tax guide, there are several good ones in the bookstore. (However, I would prefer to hire a qualified accountant then to have to educate myself on business taxes in addition to actually running the business.)
If you started your business activities and formed your partnership in 2022, then you are not late filing. One of the experts may have assumed that you started your business in 2021 and are preparing a late 2021 tax return.
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