3689061
How to I report Irish social security state pension when filing online. It is a state pension not a private pension.
Thanks
J
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That can be complicated. I want to refer this to another expert, @pk
If there is a tax treaty with the other country, there are two ways to treat a government pension/social security plan.
1. Follow the laws of the other country in paying income tax on the social security benefit in that country. If you do that, then it is not taxable at all in the US and does not have to be reported on your US tax return. (This is relying on the treaty.)
2. If you choose not to follow the laws of the home country, then you report it as "miscellaneous/other taxable income" on your US tax return.
Obviously, what works best for you depends on the laws of your home country regarding paying tax on the social benefit.
@Justinmcken , agreeing with the general comments by my colleague @Opus 17 , I would like to add the following :
(a) generally , i.e. for most treaty countries, govt. pension and payments from Social Security equivalents are taxable only by the country disbursing the payment.
(b) Ireland is an outlier in this :
1. Article 18 of the treaty --
(a) Subject to the provisions or Article 19 (Government Service) pensions and other similar remuneration derived and beneficially owned by a resident of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment shall be taxable only in that State; and b) notwithstanding the provisions of Article 19, payments made by a Contracting State under provisions of the social security or similar legislation of that State to a resident of the other Contracting State shall be taxable only in that other State
2. Technical Explanation further clarifies:
Subparagraph 1(b) The treatment of social security benefits is dealt with in subparagraph 1(b). This subparagraph provides that payments made by one of the Contracting States under the provisions of its social security or similar legislation to a resident of the other Contracting State will be taxable only in the other Contracting State. This subparagraph applies to social security beneficiaries whether they have contributed to the system as private sector or Government employees. The reference to “provisions of the social security” legislation is not restricted to old age pensions but refers to all sorts of social security benefits, including benefits granted in kind and payments made as compensation for work-related diseases or accidents. Paragraph 2 of the diplomatic notes explains that the phrase “similar legislation” is intended to refer to United States tier 1 Railroad Retirement benefits.
Thus the taxability is "residency" based.
Based on the above , my opinion is that your Irish Social Security payments are taxable ONLY by the US and not Ireland.
However, there is no mechanism for you to declare/recognize this income as "Social Security" and its taxability rules. So you are left with treating this income as if it was private pension ( a-la 1099-R ) but with Unknown basis i.e. fully taxable amount.
Note that this treatment of Social Security equivalent is different from other countries like Australia --
Article 18 ---
(2) Social Security payments and other public pensions paid by one of the Contracting States to an
individual who is a resident of the other Contracting State or a citizen of the United States shall be
taxable only in the first-mentioned State.
So that is where I stand.
Is there more one of us can do for you ?
Does TurboTax facilitate entering Irish Ss income separately? Also from what I read it is better to file separately from my wife rather than jointly or am I interpreting it incorrectly?
Do you also have US social security? Or are you just asking about the Irish payments?
Generally, if you have US social security in the mix, married filing separately is the worst status because of how the spouse's US social security benefits are taxed. When you are married filing separately, 85% of US social security benefit is automatically taxed from the first dollar. You can't file as "single" if you are married.
I also want to address the comments of my excellent colleague @pk . Because the Irish payments are taxed only in the US, but there is no mechanism in Turbotax to apply the US social security rules to the Irish benefit payments, you would have to declare the payment as a general pension using a substitute 1099-R. That makes the Irish benefit 100% taxable no matter what filing status you use. If you want to try to apply US social security tax calculations to the Irish benefit, you will need to hire a tax professional to help you with that, if it is even possible.
@Justinmcken Also you left out the filing Married filing Separate status.
Up to 85% of Social Security becomes taxable when all your other income plus 1/2 your social security, reaches:
Married Filing Jointly: $32,000
Single or head of household: $25,000
Married Filing Separately: 0
Yes, I both my wife and I also have US social security.
@Justinmcken while my colleagues @Opus 17 and @VolvoGirl have pointed out different facets of this , I just wanted to point out that the test/ threshold amount i.e. the 25,000, 34,000 etc. are not just SSA amount -- it is the sum of 50% of total SSA plus all other incomes that is tested against the thresholds to determine the taxable portion/amount of SSA income. Thus your other incomes ( i.e. those beside the SSA ) play a significant role in allocating the taxable portion of SSA income.
Hope this clarifies and helps your decision.
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