Is "Your" MAGI, "Our" MAGI

[cstan222]

I've searched high and low can't find clarification this. We are married. I made less than $129k, my wife made more. The following excerpt is from a Schwab Q&A.

If you're married filing jointly, the rules are a little more complex. In that case, if you—as the owner of the IRA—have a retirement plan at work, your MAGI must be less than $129,000 to take a full or partial deduction in 2022. Once your MAGI reaches $129,000 or more, you're no longer eligible for the deduction. 

But when it refers to "your MAGI," does it mean each of us, or combined?

[cstan222]

I should add, the guidance goes on to say, "if you don't have a 401k but your spouse does... your MAGI should be less than $214k." But what if you DO have a 401k, per the earlier guidance (suggesting a limit of $129k) but your spouse does NOT. I don't understand how the IRS is parsing out its references to us.

Does it mean, if both of you vs. if one of you, regardless of who?

[dmertz]

There is only one MAGI.  On a joint tax return the modified AGI determined from your combined income.  That's why the MAGI limits for joint filers are higher than the MAGI limits for single filers.

[Critter-3]

They are quoting from the IRS Pub 590-a starting on page 11 ...  https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p590a.pdf

[cstan222]

Thanks for the reply! So is it saying if either spouse has a 401k but the other doesn't, the combined MAGI limit for deducting at least some of a contribution is $214k, and if both spouses have a 401k, the combined MAGI limit is $129k?

[Critter-3]

See the charts on pages 14 & 15 for the 2022 tax year ... pub still in draft format 

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-dft/p590a--dft.pdf

[cstan222]

Thanks. I've seen these charts. But I'm apparently too dumb to process them. The IRS seems to be using "you" interchangeably between singular and plural.

Table 1-2: If you are covered by a 401k, married filing jointly: limit - $129k. But it makes no mention of the spouse here. Who is the "you" you here? If I'm covered, but my spouse isn't, is it still $129k?

Table 1-3: If you are not..., married filing jointly: This one seems more clear as it breaks it down by 1 payer not being covered and then what to do if the spouse is or isn't.

It looks like the IRS is using "you" to refer to both spouses in the title of Table 1-2 and "you" to refer to just the one in the the title of Table 1-3

So, I'm just hoping for clarity: Would a lay phrasing be, "if either spouse has a 401k but the other does not, the combined MAGI limit for deducting at least some of a contribution is $214k, and if both spouses have a 401k, the combined MAGI limit is $129k?"

[dmertz]

"So is it saying if either spouse has a 401k but the other doesn't, the combined MAGI limit for deducting at least some of a contribution is $214k, and if both spouses have a 401k, the combined MAGI limit is $129k?"

No, that's not quite what it says.  When only one spouse is an active participant in a 401(k), the $129k MAGI limit applies to the spouse who is an active participant and the $214k MAGI limit applies to the spouse who is not an active participant.  As you said, though, if both spouses participate in 401(k)s, both spouses are subject to the $129k MAGI limit.

IRAs are individual accounts, so with respect to IRA contributions, so "You" in the IRS references refers to the individual making the IRA contribution.

[cstan222]

And the MAGI limits are combined? If spouse 1 is participating and spouse 2 isn't, spouse 1 can only contribute if their combined MAGI is less than $129k and spouse 2, if their combined MAGI is less than $214k?

In our situation, our combined MAGI is above $214k, but my individual income is less than $129k. And we both participate in a 401k. Does that mean neither of us can deduct a contribution, or just I can?

[dmertz]

Neither of you is eligible to deduct a traditional IRA contribution.

MAGI on a joint tax return is from the combined total of both spouse's income.  You are referring to that as "combine MAGI,"  but on a joint tax return there is no such thing as uncombined MAGI.  It's just MAGI.  On a joint tax return, the amount that your individual portion contributes to the total is immaterial.

[cstan222]

Talking about a Traditional IRA, where there's the possibility for deductions. Already understand that about the Roth.

Nonetheless, I think your answer holds, given the clarification on "combined MAGI." My confusion comes from the language in the IRS publication. As previously stated, Table 1-2 only mentions "you" with no mention of a spouse. How does the IRS even know who they're addressing in this instance? In Table 1-3, they mention "you" and a spouse. And then when they mention "your" MAGI, per your comment, they seem to be meaning the MAGI of the joint-entity filer. They're handling the "you" in 3-different vague ways here, it seems.

But no need to beat a dead horse. If the following statement (which includes qualifiers for my sake of clarity) is correct, then I understand: "if either spouse has a 401k but the other does not, the joint-filer MAGI limit for deducting at least some of a contribution to a traditional IRA is $214k for the person without a 401k and $129k for the person with one, and if both spouses have a 401k, the joint-filer MAGI limit is $129k for both persons?"

Assuming ^^ is correct - thanks for your help!

[dmertz]

I've corrected by previous reply to say, "Neither of you is eligible to deduct a traditional IRA contribution"  instead of mistakenly referring to a Roth IRA contribution.