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Hello, I built a house in 2021 to be used as an AirBnB property. I was initially was entering the property under the "Rental & Royalties" section, but I saw a link saying 'What about AirBnB and VRBO?". Under that section, it mentioned that rental income/expenses should go in the Profit or Loss from Business section (in TurboTax Home & Business) or Business Income and Expenses section (all other versions of TurboTax) if any of a list of criteria is true.
The first criteria is avg rental is 7 days or less, which is true for me, and provided "significant personal services"... but I don't know what that means? I don't have a personal "staff" working at the property. I just manage the bookings and communications with guests on AirBnB, and coordinate with my contractors (cleaners, property manager) for cleaning and maintenance (like plowing).
Is this considered "significant personal services"?
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Yes, providing services like a hotel is considered "significant personal services". It counts when you are the one coordinating services or potentially filling in if you can't get anyone there in order to continue renting.
From IRS Publication 527:
Generally, Schedule C is used when you provide substantial services in conjunction with the property or the rental is part of a trade or business as a real estate dealer. Providing substantial services. If you provide substantial services that are primarily for your tenant's convenience, such as regular cleaning, changing linen, or maid service, you report your rental income and expenses on Schedule C.
Schedule E:
If you file a Schedule E, you may be able to deduct up to $25,000 of losses from a Schedule E if you Actively Participate in the rentals. The IRS defines Active Participation as:
If you rent buildings, rooms, or apartments, and provide basic services such as heat and light, trash collection, etc., you normally report your rental income and expenses on Schedule E, Part I.
@AliciaP1 Thank you for the reply.. but where is "Schedule C" in TurboTax.. I can't seem to find it....and what is Schedule E?
@xanman2112 wrote:
The first criteria is avg rental is 7 days or less, which is true for me, and provided "significant personal services"... but I don't know what that means? I don't have a personal "staff" working at the property. I just manage the bookings and communications with guests on AirBnB, and coordinate with my contractors (cleaners, property manager) for cleaning and maintenance (like plowing).
Is this considered "significant personal services"?
In my opinion, unless you (or someone you hire) is assisting the tenants while they are staying there (for example, maid service, providing meals, or other actions given towards the tenants), it is NOT "services". So that means it should be entered in the Rental section of TurboTax (Schedule E), not the Business section (Schedule C).
Then the next questions would be this: Does this rise to the level of a "Trade or Business"? I suspect most short term rentals would be a "yes". But then the question is "Do you Materially Participate" in that rental business?
https://www.irs.gov/publications/p925#en_US_2020_publink[phone number removed]
It appears in the instructions but I still maintain that they got it wrong.
Publication 925 (2020), Passive Activity and At-Risk Rules | Internal Revenue Service (irs.gov)
"significant personal services"... but I don't know what that means?
Do you provide services that are "directly beneficial to the tenant"? For example, maid/housekeeping services while the tenant is staying there. If you only provide those services between tenants, then it's not "directly beneficial" to the tenant.
Things are are considered directly beneficial to the tenant include:
- Making the beds while the tenant is staying there
- Cleaning services while the tenant is staying there. For example, cleaning the kitchen/bathroom.
- Emptying the inside trashcans while the tenant is staying there.
Things that are not considered directly beneficial to the tenant include:
- Preparing the property of occupancy by the next tenant, after the prior tenant vacates.
- Yard services (grass cutting, flowerbed weeding, and the such) These things get done weather the property is occupied or not.
where is "Schedule C" in TurboTax.. I can't seem to find it....and what is Schedule E?
There are two extremely basic types of business income. Both types have their pros and cons.
Non-passive income: This is more commonly referred to as "earned" income. For this type of income you generally have to go out and actually "do something" to earn it. Just like you do with your regular W-2 job. If you are self-employed and "do something" to earn money for your business, that income gets reported on SCH C - Business Income & Expenses.
Pros - SCH C income can be included when figuring your total allowed contribution to a retirement plan; be it a 401(k), Traditional IRA or ROTH IRA. This income is also included when figuring the maximum amount of social security you will be able to receive when you reach retirement age and file for social security.
Cons - SCH C income is subject to an additional 15.3% self-employment tax on top of the "regular" income tax you may pay on this income. Basically, the SE tax is the employer's side of your social security tax and Medicare tax. So "in a sense" you're paying your future self with that additional 15.3% self-employment tax.
Passive income: This type of income includes rental income and royalty income. To receive this income you don't "do" anything to actually earn it. All you do is "sit there" and collect that income on a periodic basis; be it once a week, once a month, or whatever. This income is reported on SCH E - Rental & Royalty Income & Expenses.
Pros: SCH E income is NOT subject to the additional 15.3% self-employment tax. So you will only pay "regular" tax on any profit realized. Typically, long term rental property operates at a loss and you won't realize any taxable gain until the tax year you sell. But for short term rentals like VRBO & AirB&B it's more common to actually show a profit. It just depends on your pricing and your expenses of operating the property.
Cons: SCH E income can not be included or used for figuring your maximum retirement contributions since it's not "earned" income. It also doesn't count for figuring your maximum allowed social security income when you reach retirement age and file for social security.
So, if you do not provide services directly beneficial to your tenants, you'll report all your rental property income and expenses on SCH E which is in the section titled "Rental & Royalty Income (SCH E). In the desktop version of TurboTax Home & Business and the online version of TurboTax Self-employed, you'll find that section under the Business tab. IN all other versions you'll find it under the Personal Income tab.
If you "do" provide your tenants services that are directly beneficial to them, then you can report your rental income and expenses on SCH C. That section is named "Business Income & Expenses" and you'll find it under the Business tab in the desktop Home & Business version or the online Self Employed version. For all other versions of the program it will be under the Personal Income tab.
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@Anonymous_ wrote:It appears in the instructions but I still maintain that they got it wrong.
Publication 925 (2020), Passive Activity and At-Risk Rules | Internal Revenue Service (irs.gov)
What exactly do you think is wrong?
@AmeliesUncle wrote:
What exactly do you think is wrong?
The implication is that the rentals with an average period of 7 days or less are, de facto, not "rental activities" and, therefore, should be reported on Schedule C (regardless of whether or not services are provided).
It does not say to report on Schedule C.
The "rental activity" is ONLY pertaining for determining if it is Passive or not. For the Passive Loss rules, a "rental activity" is automatically passive, versus a non-rental activity may or may not be passive. It is still a rental for all other purposes, and the rental still goes on Schedule E.
@AmeliesUncle wrote:
It does not say to report on Schedule C.
The "rental activity" is ONLY pertaining for determining if it is Passive or not. For the Passive Loss rules, a "rental activity" is automatically passive, versus a non-rental activity may or may not be passive. It is still a rental for all other purposes, and the rental still goes on Schedule E.
You understand that and I understand that (and we are in agreement here), but it is mixed messaging (at best).
The designation of "not a rental activity" leads a lot of professionals, analysts (and a plethora of lookers on) to conclude that the designation entails reporting on Schedule C (as a business) rather than Schedule E.
These various people support their proposition by pointing to Schedule E itself, which states "....income and loss from rental real estate...." at the top of the form. Thus, (they believe) that activities that are not rental activities must, necessarily, be reported on Schedule C (clearly wrong, but......).
Publication 925 should make it clear that the designation is strictly for the purposes of determining whether or not the income is passive and not whether the income should be reported on a schedule other than Schedule E.
I understand the confusion, and you are right, it would be nice for the IRS to add a mention of that. However, the title of Publication 925 says it is for Passive Activity Rules, so people should not be applying things from that publication to anything besides Passive Activity Rules.
@AmeliesUncle wrote:
....the title of Publication 925 says it is for Passive Activity Rules, so people should not be applying things from that publication to anything besides Passive Activity Rules
Agreed.
Unfortunately, there are far too many who fail to read the Code, Regs, RRs, RPs, IRS instructions, et al, in conjunction with other sentences, paragraphs, and sections (and also fail to realize exactly what the particular material they are reading specifically addresses).
And even those of us that do read them, a lot of it can be very difficult to understand, so it makes sense that some things are often misunderstood.
Thank you all for your insight. So, I think I am convinced that I should be using "Schedule E" as I am NOT providing substantial services. Thank you to @AmeliesUncle for clarifying the cleaning DURING a guest's stay would be substantial services. Like most AirBnB hosts, I'm only having someone do this between rentals.
So, with that determined... is there anything else I need to figure out. I'm still unclear on this "passive/active" thing. If I'm just using Schedule E... does that still apply?
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