Let's say I forgot to consider a grant into my 529 withdrawal calculation (or AOTC etc.), hence I made excess distribution where the gain will become taxable.
(a) It is my understanding that this scenario is NOT subject to the 10% penalty - correct? What about CA State?
(b) Does TurboTax Deluxe handle both situations where the penalty does and does not apply - and how?
TIA - CA ScholarShare 529
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Q. It is my understanding that this scenario is NOT subject to the 10% penalty - correct?
A. Correct.
Q. What about CA State?
A. I don't know.
Q. Does TurboTax Deluxe handle both situations where the penalty does and does not apply - and how?
A. Yes, but not smoothly. You need to know what you're doing.
Instead of paying tax on the earnings portion of an excess 529 distributions, some students (particularly student dependents) come out better treating part of the scholarship as taxable instead.
Q. It is my understanding that this scenario is NOT subject to the 10% penalty - correct?
A. Correct.
Q. What about CA State?
A. I don't know.
Q. Does TurboTax Deluxe handle both situations where the penalty does and does not apply - and how?
A. Yes, but not smoothly. You need to know what you're doing.
Instead of paying tax on the earnings portion of an excess 529 distributions, some students (particularly student dependents) come out better treating part of the scholarship as taxable instead.
Thank you again for answering my questions. I read your last paragraph five times and not following, sorry. Would you be so kind to explain further or point me to some articles?
background: I am the parent of the dependent student and I have the fortunate problem of having over funded the 529 plan. I understand my future options on how else to use or repurpose the 529 plan/beneficiary, but at this point my objective is to use as much of it as possible in the next four years, including paying income taxes on the gains but without the penalties. So I am considering withdrawing equal to all the grants and scholarships because they are penalty-free distributions as long as they don't put us into the next tax bracket of course.
There are three things you can do with your Qualified educational expenses (QEE):
Generally, you can allocate your QEE to optimize your benefits. The (American Opportunity) Tax/Tuition Credit is the most generous education tax benefit. Claim it first.
Room and board are qualified expenses for a 529 distribution (if student is half time or more), but nor for tax free scholarship or the credit.
There is a tax “loop hole” available. The student reports all his scholarship, up to the amount needed to claim the American Opportunity Credit (AOC), as income on his return. That way, the parents (or himself, if he is not a dependent) can claim the tuition credit on their return. They can do this because that much tuition was no longer paid by "tax free" scholarship. You cannot do this if the school’s billing statement specifically shows the scholarships being applied to tuition or if the conditions of the grant are that it be used to pay for qualified expenses.
Using an example: Student has $10,000 in box 5 of the 1098-T and $8000 in box 1. At first glance he/she has $2000 of taxable income and nobody can claim the American opportunity credit. But if she reports $6000 as income on her return, the parents can claim $4000 of qualified expenses on their return.
Books and computers are also qualifying expenses for the AOC. So, extending the example, the student had another $1000 in expenses for those course materials, paid out of pocket, she would only need to report $5000 of taxable scholarship income, instead of $6000.
Taxable Scholarship is considered earned income for purposes of calculating a dependent's standard deduction. So, scholarship doesn't actually get taxed until the student has $12, 950 (2022) of income. But, taxable 529 earnings are unearned income and the student-dependent starts getting taxed at only $1100 of unearned income.
_______________________________________________________________________________________
Qualified Tuition Plans (QTP 529 Plans) Distributions
General Discussion
It’s complicated.
For 529 plans, there is an “owner” (usually the parent), and a “beneficiary” (usually the student dependent). The "recipient" of the distribution can be either the owner or the beneficiary depending on who the money was sent to. When the money goes directly from the Qualified Tuition Plan (QTP) to the school, the student is the "recipient". The distribution will be reported on IRS form 1099-Q.
The 1099-Q gets reported on the recipient's return.** The recipient's name & SS# will be on the 1099-Q.
Even though the 1099-Q is going on the student's return, the 1098-T should go on the parent's return, so you can claim the education credit. You can do this because he is your dependent.
You can and should claim the tuition credit before claiming the 529 plan earnings exclusion. The educational expenses he claims for the 1099-Q should be reduced by the amount of educational expenses you claim for the credit.
But be aware, you can not double dip. You cannot count the same tuition money, for the tuition credit, that gets him an exclusion from the taxability of the earnings (interest) on the 529 plan. Since the credit is more generous; use as much of the tuition as is needed for the credit and the rest for the interest exclusion. Another special rule allows you to claim the tuition credit even though it was "his" money that paid the tuition.
In addition, there is another rule that says the 10% penalty is waived if he was unable to cover the 529 plan withdrawal with educational expenses either because he got scholarships or the expenses were used (by him or the parents) to claim the credits. He'll have to pay tax on the earnings, at his lower tax rate (subject to the “kiddie tax”), but not the penalty.
Total qualified expenses (including room & board) less amounts paid by scholarship less amounts used to claim the Tuition credit equals the amount you can use to claim the earnings exclusion on the 1099-Q.
Example:
$10,000 in educational expenses(including room & board)
-$3000 paid by tax free scholarship***
-$4000 used to claim the American Opportunity credit
=$3000 Can be used against the 1099-Q (usually on the student’s return)
Box 1 of the 1099-Q is $5000
Box 2 is $2800
3000/5000=60% of the earnings are tax free; 40% are taxable (2000 /5000)
40% x 2800= $1120
You have $1120 of taxable income
**Alternatively; you can just not report the 1099-Q, at all, if your student-beneficiary has sufficient educational expenses, including room & board (even if he lives at home) to cover the distribution. You would still have to do the math to see if there were enough expenses left over for you to claim the tuition credit. Again, you cannot double dip! When the box 1 amount on form 1099-Q is fully covered by expenses, TurboTax will enter nothing about the 1099-Q on the actual tax forms. But, it will prepare a 1099-Q worksheet for your records, in case of an IRS inquiry.
On form 1099-Q, instructions to the recipient reads: "Nontaxable distributions from CESAs and QTPs are not required to be reported on your income tax return. You must determine the taxability of any distribution."
***Another alternative is have the student report some of his scholarship as taxable income, to free up some expenses for the 1099-Q and/or tuition credit. Most people come out better having the scholarship taxable before the 529 earnings.
Your current plan is a good one. And you seem to know of the option to change beneficiaries after the current beneficiary finishes school to continue tax free distributions.
I am still reviewing and absorbing your detailed comments earlier which I may have follow up questions later if that's okay.
Going back to my plan, here is the detailed version with some easy figures annually (for simplicity we assume everything stays constant):
- Annual QEE = $20,000
- American Opportunity Tax Credit (AOTC) = $4,000 (which provides up to $2,500 credit)
- School Grants = $1,000
- No other scholarships yet
Given that the school will probably show the Grant is applied towards tuition, it cannot go into the student's income if I understood your earlier "loop hole" comment.
Ideally the parent would withdraw 20-(4+1)=$15,000 from the 529. But because my objective is to withdraw as much as possible without penalty, I will withdraw the entire $20K from the 529 and hence pay taxes on the gains of the $5,000 (the double-dipped amount).
However there is one more item to muddy the equation: a $3,500 subsidized federal loan which I plan to take advantage of (no more than $10K*) because it is interest-free for 4.5 years. Why? Because the 529 value has dropped due to the current market decline, I can postpone withdrawing from the 529 until the very end and hence improve the value of the 529 when the market recovers in the future. Re-doing the math this results in 529 withdrawals of $16.5K for years one and two, $17K for year three, $20K in year four, and at the end withdraw another $10K to pay off the loan.
Does this approach make sense so far?
[* I understand that I can only use up to $10K of 529 funds to repay a loan]
Loans are ignored in tax calculations. Loan money is the same as your out-of-pocket money, because it has to be repaid. The fact that 529 money double dips with loans is ignored. The 529 distribution is still qualified.
I assume the $20K QEE includes room and board expenses.
You say "pay taxes on the gains of the $5,000 (the double-dipped amount)". No, the $5000 is not the taxable amount. See the example above on how the taxable amount is calculated. In your example the $5000 would only be the numerator in the fraction that determines the taxable amount, i.e. 5000 / 20,000 = 0.25. 25% of the earnings (shown in box 2 of the 1099-Q) would be taxable.
I wrote "gains" and by that I meant earnings - my apologies. We are on the same page on this.
Yes, $20K QEE includes everything in my made-up example.
Thank you.
I used TurboTax and ran many scenarios with various 1099-Q and 1098-T "what if" figures and compared the results in the corresponding forms and worksheets. I now have a very good understanding combined with your valuable comments and my research in the past few days. THANK YOU!
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