When will form 8915-E 2020 be available in turbo tax?

[macuser_22]

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@smbosworth wrote:

I figured out the $13,331.  It is the $15,000 I paid back, less the $1,669 that was the non taxable part of the withdrawal (box 5 on the 1099).  It still is not right - but I get the number now, at least.  But that is not what should be on Line 5b, right?   It should be box 2 on the 1099 less the $15,000.  Am I missing something?

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If I am not mis-understanding, you paid back $15,000 of the $22,723 distribution and want to pay the remainder in future years.

If that is correct then you paid back more then 1/3 so the 2020 line 5b taxable amount would be zero since what was paid back is not taxable.

Paying the tax now on future payments is not permitted so the tax withheld is applied to all other 2020 withholding and will add to your refund.

(You can use that money to make estimated tax payments for 2021 of necessary.)

[smbosworth]

No, I am actually trying to pay it all this year.  So, the only taxable amount on Line 5B should be the $22,723 less the $15,000.  If I check the 3 years, I owe nothing this year.  But since I am trying to pay all the tax this year, it is making the taxable income $13,331 not the difference of the 2 numbers which is $7,723.  That isn't correct, I don't think.

[robbyja]

There are two mutually exclusive parts to the 8915-E.

One part is if you want to split the distribution into three parts.  The checkbox is a binary choice.

That is, you either want to split it over three years or you don't.  

The second part is if you repaid the distribution and if you did, how much.

The repayment made (if any) offsets the result of your distribution choice.  

You can split without repaying or you can repay without splitting or you can split and repay.  

As I have been suggesting, download the 8915-E form from the IRS and fill it out manually so you can see how it works.

This form only determines how much of your distribution is taxable this year. 

Taxes already paid vs taxes due are calculated as part of your total tax return (in its entirety).

[robbyja]

If you want to pay more this year, check the box to NOT split the distribution.

Lines 15, 16 and 17 would then be $22,723 (your total distribution)

If your repayment was $15,000 (line 18), then line 19 is $22,723 - $15,000 = $7,723

Meaning, you would owe tax on $7,723.

If you wanted to pay tax on the $22,723, you should not have repaid the loan and in which case, you would not even need the 8915-E.

I'm not tax certified but if you really do want to pay tax on the $22,723, you MAY be able to consider the $15k a non deductible IRA contribution?  I think the ability to do that depends on your MAGI.

IF you can do that, you don't need the 8915-E because you would not be taking advantage of the program (which is geared to keep more money in your pocket THIS year).

[smbosworth]

Exactly!  I want to claim the payback of the $15,000 - just when I enter the payback and then I DONT'T click the box so that I am paying tax on the net of $7,723, the amount on line 5b calculates as $13,331.  It doesn't make sense.

[macuser_22]

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@smbosworth wrote:

No, I am actually trying to pay it all this year.  So, the only taxable amount on Line 5B should be the $22,723 less the $15,000.  If I check the 3 years, I owe nothing this year.  But since I am trying to pay all the tax this year, it is making the taxable income $13,331 not the difference of the 2 numbers which is $7,723.  That isn't correct, I don't think.

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"This year" is 2021.    You previously said you repaid $15K in 2020.

What you pay in 2021 goes on your 2021 tax return next year.   You can replay it all in 2021 and be taxed for that on your 2021 tax return.

For 2020 since you repaid more then 1/3 there is no 2020 tax.

[smbosworth]

Sorry - yes I paid it back in 2020.  Even though I paid more than 1/3 back in 2020, I don;t want to spread it across 3 years, I want to pay the tax on the net of my withdrawal ($22,773) and the payback in 2020 of $15,000, which should be $7,723.  But when I put that all in and DONT check the box for spreading it three years, the amount on Line 5b is $13,331.  It should be $7,723.  I think there is something wrong in the calculations or am I missing something?

[robbyja]

The form is not to pay 1/3 of the amount left after the repayment.

It splits the distribution into thirds and then reduces the first 1/3 by the repayment.

It's great to have it this way because I can repay the 1st 1/3rd this year, the 2nd 3rd in 2021 and the 3rd 3rd in 2022 which is the intent of the tax law that was enacted.  It not only splits the taxable amount into thirds but also gives me three years to repay the taxable amount of the withdrawal.

PLEASE download the 8915-E form and fill it out manually.  It will help you understand how it works.

Assuming you had no other disasters (previous years), you will have numbers in 3a, 3b, 4a, 4b, 15, 16, 17, 18 and 19.  Nothing else so it's pretty simple to do.

If you want to pay the most taxes this year (and less in subsequent years), CHECK the box (you DON'T want to split) and enter the full distribution amount on line 17 (the same that is on line 16).

Line 18 will be what you repaid and line 19 will be the net ($7,723). 

If you do this, you will owe taxes THIS YEAR on $7,723.

[macuser_22]

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@smbosworth wrote:

Exactly!  I want to claim the payback of the $15,000 - just when I enter the payback and then I DONT'T click the box so that I am paying tax on the net of $7,723, the amount on line 5b calculates as $13,331.  It doesn't make sense.

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If you want to pay all the tax on the $21,054 box 2a distribution then check the box on this screen. 

[macuser_22]

And the $6,054 is the 1099-R box 1 $22,723 minus the non-taxable $15,000 paid back = $7,723

$7,723 minus you own nontaxable $1,669 contribution = $6,054.

[smbosworth]

es, but it calculates the amount as $13,331, not $7,723

[smbosworth]

Right - box 1 includes the $1,669, box 2 is the $22,723.  That amount is already less the $1,669.  Then less the $15,000 should be $7,723, but it is putting $13,331 on line b which is wrong....I'm trying to determine if it is a problem in TurboTax since this section was just added.

[smbosworth]

I have done that - and the paper form gives me $7,723 as taxable, but TurboTax is putting $13,331 on that line instead.  Is there a problem with the program?  How do I get TurboTax to look at it?

[macuser_22]

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@smbosworth wrote:

es, but it calculates the amount as $13,331, not $7,723

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It should be $7,723 minus the 1099-R box 5 amount = $6,054.

I suggest deleting the 1099-R and re-enter.  You must have answered a question  incorrectly.  It works right for me using your numbers..

[smbosworth]

Crazy...I am so frustrated - I have deleted and re-entered several times.  Then, I actually deleted the whole return and started from scratch and am still getting the same thing.