Do I file a W9 or W8BEN?

[ChikakoS]

I was in USA on a J1 research scholar since 2018. I left my job (and my ds2019 expired) and returned to the UK in Sep 2021. I have been asked to complete either a W9 or a W8BEN for IRA reasons. Which one do I file? Do I still count as a resident alien (for tax puposes)? Or am I dual status now? If I am dual status, which form do I complete? Thanks in advance!

[pk]

@ChikakoS ,   first  W-9 is for taxpayers whom have SSN  ( Social Security Number ), for the  rest Non-Resident Alien  it is  W8BEN .   Since you have had a valid  SSN, you should use  W-9 and provide your SSN.

Second,  since you  moved out of the country in 2021 and been here since 2018, you ( absent any other info ) were a Resident for Tax purposes  and filed a form 1040 for 2020 tax year.  

Third, because  your permission to stay and work in the country has expired ,  you were employed and paid  by the US entity during the period 2018 through Sep 2021 and  that you would like to keep your UK earnings for the period  Sep 2021 through Dec 2021 out of US taxes,  you probably  should file as dual status  person i.e. a form 1040 covering the period Jan 1st. through  the day of your departure from the USA and a form 1040-NR for the period thereafter.  TurboTax does not support the prep/transmission of form 1040-NR and its schedules, you should consider using  the services of a tax professional either in the USA or in the UK  or SprinTax , an associate of  Intuit Inc.  Also note  that  dual status  tax payers are required to  use itemized deduction which can b disadvantage  to be weighed against  filing a Resident for the whole tax year ( and allowing  taxation of the UK income by the USA ) --- but all these is best discussed with a tax professional or SprinTax or any other .

Is there more I can do for you ?

[ChikakoS]

Thank you @pk! So just to confirm, I should file a w9 even though I am currently classed as a non-resident alien because I previously had a social security number? And I should file as dual status for tax returns?

[pk]

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you.  Yes your understanding is correct

[ChikakoS]

Thanks @pk! I need to file the W9 for pension withdrawal reasons. So when I file my taxes, do I enter this in my 1040NR form (for non-resident) since I will be making the withdrawal during the non-resident portion of my dual status year? If so, will this cause conflict with my W9 form (since it is usually filed for US residents)? I really appreciate your help!

[pk]

@ChikakoS , not to worry -- use of SSN  for filing 1040-NR will work -- there is no conflict.  Note that many people with  H-1B during the first year need to file 1040-NR  ( because they have not met the Substantial Presence Test yet ) and have SSN.  You will be fine -- no issues.

Is there more I can do for you ?

[ChikakoS]

Hi @pk. I meant that I am worried that filing a W9 (which suggests US residency/person) for my pension withdrawal would conflict with filing my non resident alien tax return. Because the withdrawal will be itemized on my NRA return (as I would be withdrawing during the non resident alien part of the dual status tax year). Would the W9 (US resident alien/person) conflict with the non resident alien tax return? Thank you for all of your help!

[pk]

@ChikakoS , I am sorry for not being clear --- most of the forms  are based on TIN ( Taxpayer Identification Number ) --- this can be  SSN or ITIN.  Those whom are not eligible  and/or do not have  SSN, you apply for  and use ITIN.  In your case because  you already have SSN and your Tax accounts  are identified using SSN, you should use  SSN.  That is what I was trying to get across by saying there is no conflict  with your using SSN. 

Also note that W8BEN  essentially  requires you to get an ITIN and this ITIN is valid for three  years.   I think SSN once issued remains valid pretty much for life

I hope this clarifies the situation

[j_m1]

I am not a resident/citizen and I was in the US in 2016-2017 on a work visa and filed accordingly.

Now I am working in my home country and my wages/taxes are payed in local currency.

In 2022/2023, I will be awarded with some US company stock and I have been asked to fill a W8 form,
The form asks for a SSN/TIN if available.

The SSN when I was in the US, said to be used only with DHS authorization.

Do I need to look for the SSN and provide it? Or should I provide my local tax information?

[DaveF1006]

You would only provide a SSN if you have one otherwise provide your local tax information.

@j_m1

[pk]

@j_m1 , agreeing with @DaveF1006 , -- since you have an SSN, you provide that  along with W-9 requested by the entity -- the income and the return you file ( which will now be on 1040-NR , because you are non-resident alien , having abandoned your stay in the USA ).   The  Note about  "use only with DHS permission " is only for purposes of  providing this to employers  in the USA -- i.e. use as  a "permission to work".  For tax return purposes though  as long as your SSN is valid  ( SSN's  are generally not re-issued  by SSA , I think as long the holder is not reported as demised and then also after a huge number of years ), it  can be used as Tax ID Number ( TIN ).

For US tax purposes you cannot use any other ID except  SSN or ITIN ( issued by IRS ) or ATIN ( issued by IRS , temporary use ) . Your  home country tax id  cannot be used  ( IRS computers also will not recognize the format and will definitely reject the return).

Note that because your current status is Non-Resident Alien, having passive income  ( stock award, dividends, sales of stocks etc. ), you may have to file a form 1040-NR  ( not supported by TurboTax) for any realized income from US sources.  The awarded stocks ( depending how / why transferred ) may or may not result in a tax event for US tax purposes, but any incomes generated by these would definitely be a taxable event for US purposes , irrespective of  local tax laws  .

Does this make sense ?

[Mrmean415]

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[JKLMN300]

@pk, this response is incorrect.  Having an SSN does not mean that a W-9 is the correct form to complete and submit to the requester.  In many cases a W-8BEN is the correct form for a person with an SSN.

Per Part II of the Form W-9, you are certifying that you are a US citizen or other US person.  For individuals, a "US person" is a resident alien, meaning they are either a green card holder (GCH) or someone who qualifies as a US tax resident because they pass the substantial presence test (SPT).  In addition, although a resident alien would typically have an SSN, there are situations where they would not (e.g., child accompanying their parent in US, but the child does not have work authorization). 

For the situation described by @ChikakoS in the previous posts, a Form W-9 is the incorrect form because they have left the US and are no longer a US tax resident.  If a W-9 was previously provided to the requester, a W-8BEN should have been submitted at the end of their US tax residency period.

In addition, for purposes of the SPT, days present in the US on a J visa are often exempt (i.e., not counted).  As such, it is likely that @ChikakoS did not pass the SPT and was not a US resident alien.  In that case, they should have filed a 1040NR tax return for the years they were in the US on a J visa and a W-8BEN should have been used the entire time.

If, based on @ChikakoS's specific situation, the US days on a J visa are not exempt for SPT, they would have been a US resident alien for a period of time.  In that case, a regular Form 1040 resident income tax return would be filed their years in the US and a W-9 could have been used.

There is, of course, also the possibility of a dual status tax return, but I won't get into that here.