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VDR
Level 2

Can disallowed passive losses be carried past the disposition of the rental home?

My ex-tenant has large rent arrears that I hope to get paid in the next year or two.  I carry significant disallowed PAL.  I am selling my only rental but would like to postpone using the disallowed PAL for when the tenant pays.  Is there a way to do it?

 

More generally, how to treat/offset future rental income that is received after the rental has been sold?  Is there a way to offset it  with the losses incurred during the tenancy?  And similarly, is there a way to deduct expenses that are associated with the rental but take place after the rental is sold?

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13 Replies
Carl
Level 15

Can disallowed passive losses be carried past the disposition of the rental home?

My ex-tenant has large rent arrears that I hope to get paid in the next year or two.  I carry significant disallowed PAL.  I am selling my only rental but would like to postpone using the disallowed PAL for when the tenant pays.  Is there a way to do it?

No. Unpaid rent is not reported anywhere on any tax return. It has absolutely nothing to do with your sale of the property in any way, shape, form or fashion.

 

More generally, how to treat/offset future rental income that is received after the rental has been sold? 

You just report it as "other income".

 

Is there a way to offset it  with the losses incurred during the tenancy? 

There's absolutely nothing to offset. Since you don't report rental income not received, you don't pay taxes on it. Therefore, you have nothing to report or account for.

And similarly, is there a way to deduct expenses that are associated with the rental but take place after the rental is sold?

No. Once you no longer own the property, you're done with it. Now if you're talking about concessions to the buyer, that's dealt with as a part of the sales transaction. But once the property is sold, you're done with it in all aspects, forever.

As for your PAL carry overs, those will be fully deductible against all other income, in the tax year you sell the property. So your carry over PALs will not be lost. Generally, those will help offset the amount of taxable gain, as well as the taxation of the recaptured depreciation.

One thing I not is that you refer to "EX" tenant. I assume this is a tenant you either evicted or they left of their own accord, and that you "DO" still have a renter in the property that took up residence after the non-paying renter vacated.

 

VDR
Level 2

Can disallowed passive losses be carried past the disposition of the rental home?

Thanks for replying! 

I was a bit unclear in my question.  In my specific case, the tenant was evicted, he owes significant amount, I'm suing him and expect to recover some money in the next year or two.  I just sold the property and will no longer have any property by the time I recover the money.

 

My suspended PAL, which accrued while the tenant was still in the apt., exceeds all my other gains, including recap depr., so big part of the PAL will be wasted.    Yet, when the recovered money comes over the next two years, it will be fully taxable.  Is there a solution for this?

 

As for the future expenses, I'm likely to have legal costs in 2023, when there is no more rental property, but receive the payout in 2024.  Both, the expenses and the payout are clearly the part of the rental activity, but because I won't own the property, it looks like I won't be able to deduct the 2023 expenses, while I will have to pay full tax in 2024 on recovered amount.  Is there a way to apply carry/suspend/apply the 2023 expenses against 2024 income, since those two events are linked to each other?

 

Thanks a lot for your help!

Carl
Level 15

Can disallowed passive losses be carried past the disposition of the rental home?

In my specific case, the tenant was evicted, he owes significant amount, I'm suing him and expect to recover some money in the next year or two.

Good luck. Just be aware I've been down your "eviction road" a few times over my 30 plus years as a landlord. Winning your case in court and actually collecting what you are owed, are two different things. You very well may win. But you still may not collect a penny. Just be aware of that.

  I just sold the property and will no longer have any property by the time I recover the money.

The eviction/backrent suit have nothing to do with the sale in "ANY" way, shape, form or fashion.

My suspended PAL, which accrued while the tenant was still in the apt., exceeds all my other gains, including recap depr., so big part of the PAL will be wasted.   

Your suspended PAL does not include back rent. Never has. Never will. It also has nothing to do with depreciation or other expenses. But while you owned the property, any legal fees incurred were a valid rental expense. Legal fees incurred (for the back rent) after you closed on the sale are not a rental expense in any way, shape, form or fashion. When you sold the property, you sold "ALL" of your interest in that property.

 

Yet, when the recovered money comes over the next two years, it will be fully taxable.  Is there a solution for this?

There's nothing to solve here. The money will be fully taxable "in the tax year you receive it". (meaning not necessarily in the tax year you are awarded it by the court, since there's no certainty you will received it in the same tax year it's awarded.) Your legal fees paid "AFTER" you sold the rental will be fully deductible "as such" since the matter is related to a rental business you no longer own.

As for the future expenses, I'm likely to have legal costs in 2023, when there is no more rental property, but receive the payout in 2024.  Both, the expenses and the payout are clearly the part of the rental activity, but because I won't own the property, it looks like I won't be able to deduct the 2023 expenses, while I will have to pay full tax in 2024 on recovered amount.  Is there a way to apply carry/suspend/apply the 2023 expenses against 2024 income, since those two events are linked to each other?

In Turbotax (Desktop version is all I'm familiar with) you'll claim the payout to you (if any) under the Personal Income tab in the Less Common Income section, Miscellaneous Income, Other Reportable Income. (The "learn More" link specifies that taxable court settlements go here.)

For any legal expenses paid "AFTER" the property sale was closed, you'll claim those under the Deductions & Credits tab in the Other Deductions & Credits, Legal Fees section. The "Learn More" link for that clearly states, " You can also deduct legal expenses for things that produce taxable income, such as rental property and other investments...."

Be aware that legal fees are a SCH A itemized deduction. So if the total of all of your itemized deductions do not exceed your standard deduction, then it makes no difference on your tax liability. That's just the "wait it is" since you no longer own the property.

 

VDR
Level 2

Can disallowed passive losses be carried past the disposition of the rental home?

Thanks Carl, Of course suspended PAL does not include back rent, just the actual expense items.  Still, it exceeds all other gains I have, so part of it would be wasted, while any future recovery will be fully taxed.  Oh, well...

 

As for the last portion of my question, some my future legal expenses might take place in one tax year, while the recovery will take place in the different one.  Could I deduct or otherwise use those legal expenses if I don't have gains in that tax year?  It's like an investment that I make today to gain in the coming years.  If the gain comes in the future tax year, is my investment lost for tax purposes this year?

 

P. S.  I have no choice but pursue the back rent in court - the amount is too high to just leave it.

Carl
Level 15

Can disallowed passive losses be carried past the disposition of the rental home?

As for the last portion of my question, some my future legal expenses might take place in one tax year, while the recovery will take place in the different one. Could I deduct or otherwise use those legal expenses if I don't have gains in that tax year? 

Your legal expenses are reported as I stated already, in the tax year the expense is incurred. Any recovery is reported in the tax year it is received. Overall though, I doubt either will affect your tax liability. Your legal expenses will be a SCH A itemized deduction, and your chances of actually collecting back rent are probably slim to none.

 

VDR
Level 2

Can disallowed passive losses be carried past the disposition of the rental home?

That was cheerful.  But I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Can disallowed passive losses be carried past the disposition of the rental home?


@VDR wrote:

That was cheerful.  But I'll keep my fingers crossed.


Here is more bad news. If you dispose of the rental and report any income you recover as miscellaneous income, your miscellaneous expenses in collecting that income are no longer deductible (including legal fees).

 

See https://www.irs.gov/instructions/i1040sca#en_US_2021_publink53061xd0e1967

 

See also https://www.irs.gov/publications/p529#en_US_202012_publink10004393

 

Miscellaneous itemized deductions were basically eliminated by tax reform (the TCJA).

Can disallowed passive losses be carried past the disposition of the rental home?


@VDR wrote:

......suspended PAL does not include back rent, just the actual expense items.  Still, it exceeds all other gains I have, so part of it would be wasted...............


Your suspended PAL will be released in the tax year in which you sell the property. The amount of your PAL can be used to offset all other income and even has the potential to create an NOL. It will not be wasted.

VDR
Level 2

Can disallowed passive losses be carried past the disposition of the rental home?

Yep, that's what I was afraid of and that's why I have been looking for workarounds.

VDR
Level 2

Can disallowed passive losses be carried past the disposition of the rental home?

Got it!  Thanks a lot!

Can you please also look at my other questions that I posted today, you've already touched on some of them.  It's all part of my last minute end of year planning.

Can disallowed passive losses be carried past the disposition of the rental home?


@VDR wrote:

Yep, that's what I was afraid of and that's why I have been looking for workarounds.


There do not appear to be viable workarounds and I am not certain there is even one workaround for this scenario. However, you might want to consider future legal expenses and your odds of ever collecting on a judgment. 

 

Unless the attorney is working on a contingency, you may be looking at a losing proposition no matter what.

Can disallowed passive losses be carried past the disposition of the rental home?


@VDR wrote:

Can you please also look at my other questions that I posted today....


I have and will in one instance, but I am only going to tell you what I, personally, would do and this is not a recommendation in any way, shape, or form. 

 

If one of my rentals were damaged in the amount of $40,000, I spent $40,000 restoring it to its original condition, and I collected $30,000 from my insurance company, then I would simply write off (deduct) the $10,000 for which I was not reimbursed from my insurance company.

VDR
Level 2

Can disallowed passive losses be carried past the disposition of the rental home?

Thanks!  I appreciate a lot!  I will explain my rational for those questions in the corresponding threads.  There might be an advantage in doing extra work there.

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