in [Event] MetLife + TurboTax | Ask the Experts About Your Taxes
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>> "Decide that a $500 deduction will not help me that much, and for student grant considerations perhaps it is best to let him file and state that no one can claim him as a dependent."
> @Hal_Al - You're not allowed to do that.
Good to know. But 'allowed' is not really a word for me here as I'm allowed to not claim him. He is the one that is not permitted to take the personal exemption. My son is doing his own taxes (whatever the EZ form is now). So might be better to word that as he is not allowed to do that. If he does and I try to claim him as well, then the IRS will reject my return that contains his SS#. I would need to get him to file a 1040X and amend his return and then one or both of us resubmit a paper return. Also if he takes the personal exemption and I DON'T claim him, if the IRS catches this it could cause an issue for both him and whomever can claim him (me - presumably). Seems they are OK if he doesn't claim himself and I don't claim him either. 🙂
The point of this thread was that there were bugs and contradictions in terms of what was deemed a "Qualifying Child" on the online version of TurboTax. I worked with TurboTax to confirm this. They committed to correcting the issues, and when I first checked I thought that they had "for the most part" gotten me to where I originally thought I should be (turned out not really as getting the "Dependent" status changes with the flip of a coin practically). Look back at my initial posts where I wrote about the status last year and about the IRS ITA outcome I got *at that time* of my son being a Qualifying Child that could be claimed for the $500 ODC credit.
But in reality, all is still not well.
I went back and created two new dependents. I said "Yes" to the question about whether my dependent "made $5050 or more in 2024", the first one came out the other end with Status: Dependent
Still though if I go back and edit this dependent after getting the "Dependent" status, I can't get back to the income question. I only see it if I create a new dependent and only that one time if they get deemed "Dependent". I will not see it again. But then using the same info with different name and SS#, I get different screens of questions for the "Less common situations for xxxx". First time there were 10 questions, but now there are only 8 for this new entry. What is missing is the questions about whether "xxxx was a full time student in 2024" and the question about "Was financially supported by a relative who lived in your home for more than half of 2024".
So they haven't fixed anything really yet.
In an interesting twist, when I go to the IRS Interactive Tax Assistant (ITA) *now*, it DOES ASK an income question as the very last question. It asks you to enter an amount in dollars. It does not ask you "Was xxxx's gross income $5050 or more in 2024?" No question about amount of income was there before. But now when I put in the income it switches from Qualifying Child to Qualifying Relative and says does not qualify. Can't make this stuff up!
So NOW the IRS ITA I linked previously is saying he does NOT qualify! Even better the last modified for the page still reads as Nov 2024.
And one more, one more thing: The IRS ITA switches from saying " xxxx qualifies for the Credit for Other Dependents" to "xxxx does not qualify for the Credit for Other Dependents" when you put in a value of $5,200 or more... not $5050.
So this is a mess that frankly is not worth a $500 ODC credit to me. I plan to call TurboTax back and update them, but to be safe at this point:
It would seem best if neither I nor my son claimed him.
It would seem best if neither I nor my son claimed him.
There are limited circumstances when you would want to not claim him (but, yes you are allowed to not claim him). Letting him claim the education credit would be one (see below). There is no more personal exemption. "Not claiming himself" is just a matter of checking a box on form 1040 saying that somebody else CAN claim him. He does not indicate anywhere on the IRS forms whether somebody will actually claim him (but he does indicate that in TurboTax).
While technically there is a provision that allows your student-dependent to claim a federal tuition credit, from a practical matter it seldom works out. A full time student, under age 24, is only eligible for the refundable portion of the American Opportunity Credit (AOTC) if he supports himself by working. He cannot be supporting himself on student loans & grants and 529 plans and parental support. It is usually best if the parent claims that credit.
If the student actually has a tax liability, there is a provision to allow him to claim a non-refundable tuition credit. But then the parent must forgo claiming the student as a dependent, and the $500 other dependent credit. The student must still indicate that he can be claimed as a dependent, on his return. This is worth up to $2500 (AOTC shifts to all non refundable)
@Hal_Al - my MAGI is over twice allowed for AOTC so again, not relevant for me and mine. Perhaps someone else can use that info so thanks for the reply.
But what about that big change to the IRS ITA? Did you try it? There was no question about exact income amount for Qualifying Child, only for Qualifying Relative. Now there is at the very end and it is not $5,050 but $5,200 that gets you a "not qualified" status. That is the number for 2025 not 2024 but IRS has apparently jumped the gun. Yes that is IRS, not TurboTax.
I will be speaking with both next week and try to get to the bottom of this and see if there is a change in interpretation or distinction between income allowed for Qualifying Child vs Qualifying Relative. They seems to merge this into a more uniform Qualifying Dependent type form.
Until now there has been two distinct types of dependents, each subject to different rules:
Check this TurboTax link:
Not to bore you with the fuff, I will quote (emphasis mine) the relevant section of the FAQ:
How much can a dependent child earn?
A qualifying child can earn an unlimited amount of money and still be claimed as a dependent, so long as the child doesn't also provide more than half of their own support.
If the dependent child is being claimed under the qualifying relative rules, the child's gross income must be less than $5,050 for the year in 2024. This threshold increases to $5,200 for 2025.
I just tried the IRS ITA. It's still not fixed!
I guess I should get the desktop version as I don't think anyone that's answering questions here is using the online version.
BTW I still feel TT online is still a little quirky on this topic, but at least it says I get the OTC credit no matter how I answer the income question now.
I guess they did work on my case after all.
They had an ask the experts at TurboTax thing yesterday. I did post there but pretty much since it works out now I don't expect any actual meaningful responses.
Still concerned about the IRS ITA now as the IRS should know better than anyone.
This is the ask the experts thread
@Hal_Al - I found an IRS ITA that does work as expected!
https://www.irs.gov/help/ita/whom-may-i-claim-as-a-dependent
For the screen shots, see the previous like to the experts thread
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