Pensions not included in 1040 Line 4a? But is included in Line 4b. Line 4b should not be > 4a. Line 4a should be all 1099-R B1, Line 4b sum of Box 2a.

[astrehlo]

My hubby is a retired IRS appeals agent and said that 4a >4b.  He said normally IRS will hold this if caught.  I overrided the TT figure but TT won't let you file electronically with the override.  So I just filed paper documents.  And as per above, still never heard from TT on a fix, even when I called and spoke with agent.

Those that efiled with the override, how'd you do it?

[iamwhoiam]

@astrehlo This is the first year that they've had this line 4a/4b with pensions and IRAs combined.  It is confusing to say the least.  Some people are having no issues filing with 4a<4b.  They are getting the correct refund.  Some people are getting too much refund since 4a and 4b are being erroneously corrected and then these people have to file an amendment.  Some tax software programs have all of the gross distributions in line 4a so that 4a>4b and some do the same thing that the TT software is doing.  I still have not filed.  I would prefer to e-file and was going to just e-file it the way it is now with 4a<4b but now I really don't know.  Even the IRS agent I spoke with recommended putting the gross distributions of all of my 1099-Rs on line 4a.  I've called TT twice regarding a fix, put my email address on the notification link that is posted above and also twice posted questions asking when there would be a fix and I received no response to those questions.   

[cwqjr]

I have a similar but slightly different problem and a second (worse) problem. I have 4 pension and 2 IRA withdrawal 1099's, all at least partly taxable. My line 4A includes the four pensions but not the IRAs, which appears to be the opposite of what others are reporting. The much worse problem is that line 4b does not include one of the pension amounts so my total gross income is understated. All of the detail support sheets are correct.

[cwqjr]

@cwqjr Okay, correction. For reasons which I don't understand, but I'll take their word for it, one of the pensions was calculated by the SMS to be non-taxable, so that would explain why it's not in line 4b.

[cwqjr]

@cwqjr Okay, another comment. It appears according to IRS 1040 instructions (<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040gi.pdf">https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040gi.pdf</a>) that items do not have to be included in line 4A unless they meet certain exceptions. TT also says this in one of their online answers. The exceptions for IRAs include rollovers, HSA, qualified charitable contributions and some other assorted things which do NOT apply to my IRA withdrawals. Therefore it appears that they do NOT need to be included in 4A. At any rate, I'm going to go with what TT has reported. Thank God it's a simplified form this year.

[iamwhoiam]

@cwqjr BUT it also says that if you received more than one IRA distribution (I take that as meaning more than one 1099-R for those distributions) then the total of those distributions should be in 4a.   I don't think that TT has ever done this, though, and when there was a line 15a they just left that blank even for multiple distributions as long as the gross IRA distribution was equal to the taxable distribution.
I think that it's just confusing this year and it was better when pensions/annuities and IRAs were separated.  It makes more sense logically that the total of all gross distributions from pensions, annuities and IRAs should be on line 4a.  

[cwqjr]

@avian99 You are right, it does say that about more than one IRA distribution. But that statement is at the end of the discussion about "exceptions", so I'm guessing that it means if you have multiple distributions THAT ARE EXCEPTIONS. But who the hell knows?

[iamwhoiam]

@cwqjr LOL...who knows is right.  Nobody seems to know.  I talked to an IRS agent and she said that she would include all the distributions on 4a.  However can't override the amount and electronically file.  Can do the $1 trick that @prtaylor56 did where $1 was added to the gross in a worksheet, can uncheck the IRA/SEP/SIMPLE box that someone else did, or can paper file.   As for being simplified, I was told that there have been more calls this year to TT than in the past because of the new form but then it is new.  I think the combination of 15 a/b and 16 a/b have caused more confusion rather than simplifying things.  Also I have more schedules attached to the Federal because of this "simplification".  I've also found several questions and answers on other forums regarding lines 4a and 4b due to 4a<4b.   

[cwqjr]

@avian99 I'm just going to go with what TT has done and sleep soundly. If I get dinged then supposedly TT will back me up. I've used TT for probably 20 years without much difficulty. But 2018 was the first year I've had IRA distributions. Thank goodness they changed (and simplified) the forms for this year!

[iamwhoiam]

@cwqjr  I might wind up doing the same thing.  I don't want to change things that shouldn't be changed; just wish there was a way to override the amount in 4a and still e-file.  It's interesting that some tax software programs include all of the 1099R gross distributions in 4a.  I don't think this would be a difficult thing for the TT programmers to fix.  Probably two lines of code, give or take.

[fastweb01]

Just out of curiosity...

Of all of you that have experienced the "4a < 4b" error, how many of you did not actually buy the software and instead you are using a pirated copy of the TurboTax software...??

[fastweb01]

Please review the following web link for another perspective on this "error":

<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://support.cch.com/kb/solution/">https://support.cch.com/kb/solution/</a>

And enter solution number: zero - zero - zero - zero - nine - seven - three - four - five

.

[fastweb01]

Please review the following web link for another perspective on this "error":

<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://support.cch.com/kb/solution/">https://support.cch.com/kb/solution/</a>

And enter solution number: zero - zero - zero - zero - nine - seven - three - four - five

.

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

If you look at the 1040 worksheet, you see that TurboTax is still separating IRA's from pensions and annuities, even though the 1040 no longer does that. If you have distributions from multiple payers, they are doing it wrong. Here is what the new IRS 1040 instructions say: "More than one distribution. If you (or your spouse if filing jointly) received more than one distribution, figure the taxable amount of each distribution and enter the total of the taxable amounts on line 4b. Enter the total amount of those distributions on line 4a." So, if more than one, the total of ALL distributions should appear on 4a. I think Intuit has been told about this problem.

[ga hiker]

I went into form 1040 Wks and entered an override in the blank box for our total pension distribution amount. This got the correct amount to now appear on Form 1040 line 4a. I wasted an hour on the phone with support who was unable to escalate me to a higher level technical support to achieve my goal of having this TurboTax bug fixed. I had a similar wasted hour on Monday that ended with a promise that someone would call me yesterday afternoon or this afternoon but no one did.