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A. Probably. It depends on how high the room, board and book numbers are. That total would need to be more than $14,000 to avoid an amended return (eye ball estimate).
Q. I'll need to confer with my daughter. Would you be willing/able to provide a summary of the specific steps we'd need to take from here, given that she's already filed her 2022 return, to put her in a position to realize one or both of the relevant credits? And, would we need to complete and submit changes to her return prior to 4/18?
Thank you so much for all of your thoughtful/helpful responses today @Hal_Al , very much appreciated!
Q. Would you be willing/able to provide a summary of the specific steps we'd need to take from here?
A. Yes.
Q. And, would we need to complete and submit changes to her return prior to 4/18?
A. No. You have three years to that. But sooner is better than later as there will be interest and late payment penalty accumulating. Furthermore, you do not need to wait for her to amend to file you own return.
Q. to put her in a position to realize one or both of the relevant credits?
A. You, the parent, claims the tuition credit on your return, not the student, on her return. This is because she is your dependent. She will be amending (if needed) to report some of her 1099-Q as taxable (because the parent used some of the tuition to claim a credit). You can only claim one credit and it will be the AOTC (the other credit is not as generous and takes $10K of tuition rather than only $4K).
A. You, the parent, claims the tuition credit on your return, not the student, on her return. This is because she is your dependent. She will be amending (if needed) to report some of her 1099-Q as taxable (because the parent used some of the tuition to claim a credit). You can only claim one credit and it will be the AOTC (the other credit is not as generous and takes $10K of tuition rather than only $4K).
Q. Ok sounds good - so short-term, I should complete the section in TurboTax to vet the AOTC credit on my return this year, but should NOT include the 1099-Q and 1098-T forms in my daughter's name?
Q. I should complete the section in TurboTax to vet the AOTC credit on my return this year?
A. Yes
Q. I should NOT include the 1099-Q and 1098-T forms in my daughter's name?
A. Yes & no. Do not enter either of 1099-Qs, not the one in her name and not the one in you name. Do enter the 1098-T. A 1098-T is a requirement for the credit (and the method for entering tuition amount). Do not bother to enter any other amounts (e,g, books). In fact, you can enter the 1098-T with just $4000 on box 1 and box 5 blank (because you know the program will only use that $4000 in the calculations. The 1098-T you enter is not sent to the IRS.
You also want to work on gathering your other expenses (R&B, books etc), so we can see where we stand; ideally before you file your return.
Will do on the AOTC credit, on this:
You also want to work on gathering your other expenses (R&B, books etc), so we can see where we stand; ideally before you file your return.
The total disbursement from her 529 plan for qualified expenses in 2022 was $22,351.66. We used that account to pay for everything. So I believe the amount for room/board and books/supplies would be that total, minus the amount allocated for tuition last year.
The total disbursement from her 529 plan for qualified expenses in 2022 was $22,351.66. We used that account to pay for everything. So I believe the amount for room/board and books/supplies would be that total, minus the amount allocated for tuition last year.
So, total expenses were $22, 352, not including the $5042 paid by scholarship.
$23, 352 - $4000 used for AOTC - $1994 allocated to parent's 1099-Q = $17,358 Expenses for student's 1099-Q.
17358 / 20358 = 85.26% of the earnings are tax free. 14.74% are taxable
0.1474 x $7772 = $1145 Taxable earnings reported on the student's (amended)return. That's not enough to trigger the kiddie tax. So, she's looking at about $75 tax ([1145 - 400] x 10%])
Thank you @Hal_Al - I entered the 1098 and filled in boxes 1 & 5 as you advised ($4K for box 1, $0 for box 5). When I completed the form wizard, TT indicated that I was not eligible for an education tax credit. I checked my running taxable income, that is currently showing as $171,550.
It's not your taxable income that disqualifies you; it's your (Modified) Adjustable Gross Income.
Gotcha - is there a way for me to preview my running 1040 form in TT to see calculated MAGI, before I file?
Scratch that, I was able to preview the form - on line 11 AGI is showing as $197,474 (over the income requirement for the education tax credit). Sorry about that and thank you for helping me @Hal_Al.
So since I don't qualify, if I'm understanding correctly I'll do nothing with either the 1098-T or 1099-Q forms this year. Do I need to back out the 1098-T info I entered in TT?
Q. So since I don't qualify, if I'm understanding correctly I'll do nothing with either the 1098-T or 1099-Q forms this year.
A. That's correct
Q. Do I need to back out the 1098-T info I entered in TT?
A. No. TT has determined that you're not eligible, so nothing has been entered at the actual IRS forms.
I am following up on this conversation from last year since I have the exact same situation. 2023 was our dependent daughter's first year in college (so she only has one semester of college expenses and scholarships, as well as her last year of high school). Our income is above the limit for claiming an education credit. Her education expenses were paid for with the scholarship she received, a 529 and our own payments (not hers). She received a 1099-Q and a 1098-T, both in her name. Since she is our dependent, we would normally enter the information from these statements in our return. But since we will not be eligible for an education credit, it sounds like we don't need to enter the information from these forms in our return at all. Is that correct?
Or, should we enter just the 1098-T information in our return?
Should we report how much of her college expenses we paid out of pocket in the educational expenses part of the program, and how would we do that without entering the information from the 1098-T?
Thank you!
Q. But since we will not be eligible for an education credit, it sounds like we don't need to enter the information from these forms in our return at all. Is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Or, should we enter just the 1098-T information in our return?
A. No. You would only do so if the 1099-Q was in your name. And, maybe (most likely) not even then.
Q. Should we report how much of her college expenses we paid out of pocket in the educational expenses part of the program, and how would we do that without entering the information from the 1098-T?
A. No. It will get entered on her return, if needed (and it probably isn't).
Q. Does she need to report the 1099-Q?
A. No, unless you know that some of it is taxable.
You can just not report the 1099-Q, at all, if your student-beneficiary has sufficient educational expenses, including room & board (even if he lives at home) to cover the distribution. When the box 1 amount on form 1099-Q is fully covered by expenses, TurboTax will enter nothing about the 1099-Q on the actual tax forms. But, it will prepare a 1099-Q worksheet for your records. You cannot count expenses that were paid by tax free scholarships. You cannot double dip!
References:
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Qualified Tuition Plans (QTP 529 Plans) Distributions
General Discussion
It’s complicated.
For 529 plans, there is an “owner” (usually the parent), and a “beneficiary” (usually the student dependent). The "recipient" of the distribution can be either the owner or the beneficiary depending on who the money was sent to. When the money goes directly from the Qualified Tuition Plan (QTP) to the school, the student is the "recipient". The distribution will be reported on IRS form 1099-Q.
The 1099-Q gets reported on the recipient's return.** The recipient's name & SS# will be on the 1099-Q.
Even though the 1099-Q is going on the student's return, the 1098-T should go on the parent's return, so you can claim the education credit. You can do this because he is your dependent.
You can and should claim the tuition credit before claiming the 529 plan earnings exclusion. The American Opportunity Credit (AOC or AOTC) is 100% of the first $2000 of tuition and 25% of the next $2000 ($2500 maximum credit). The educational expenses he claims for the 1099-Q should be reduced by the amount of educational expenses you claim for the credit.
But be aware, you can not double dip. You cannot count the same tuition money, for the tuition credit, that gets him an exclusion from the taxability of the earnings (interest) on the 529 plan. Since the credit is more generous; use as much of the tuition as is needed for the credit and the rest for the interest exclusion. Another special rule allows you to claim the tuition credit regardless of whose money was used to pay the tuition.
In addition, there is another rule that says the 10% penalty is waived if he was unable to cover the 529 plan withdrawal with educational expenses either because he got scholarships or the expenses were used (by him or the parents) to claim the credits. He'll have to pay tax on the earnings, at his lower tax rate (subject to the “kiddie tax”), but not the penalty.
Total qualified expenses (including room & board) less amounts paid by scholarship less amounts used to claim the Tuition credit equals the amount you can use to claim the earnings exclusion on the 1099-Q.
Example:
$10,000 in educational expenses(including room & board which is only qualified for the 1099-Q)
-$3000 paid by tax free scholarship***
-$4000 used to claim the American Opportunity credit
=$3000 Can be used against the 1099-Q (on the recipient’s return)
Box 1 of the 1099-Q is $5000
Box 2 is $2800
3000/5000=60% of the earnings are tax free; 40% are taxable
40% x 2800= $1120
There is $1120 of taxable income (on the recipient’s return)
**Alternatively; you can just not report the 1099-Q, at all, if your student-beneficiary has sufficient educational expenses, including room & board (even if he lives at home) to cover the distribution. You would still have to do the math to see if there were enough expenses left over for you to claim the tuition credit. Again, you cannot double dip! When the box 1 amount on form 1099-Q is fully covered by expenses, TurboTax will enter nothing about the 1099-Q on the actual tax forms. But, it will prepare a 1099-Q worksheet for your records, in case of an IRS inquiry.
On form 1099-Q, instructions to the recipient reads: "Nontaxable distributions from CESAs and QTPs are not required to be reported on your income tax return. You must determine the taxability of any distribution."
***Another alternative is have the student report some of his scholarship as taxable income, to free up some expenses for the 1099-Q and/or tuition credit. Most people come out better having the scholarship taxable before the 529 earnings. A student, with no other income, can have up to $13,850 of taxable scholarship (in 2023) and still pay no income tax.
Very useful information, Hal_Al - thank you!
One issue I am having is when we enter the 1098-T information in my daughter's return, there isn't anywhere in the TT program to enter the room and board expenses. The 1098-T doesn't have those and the program only enters the 1098-T box 1 value into the return (which does not include room and board) and there is no way to edit that amount in the program.
The other bigger issue for my daughter is she did not provide over half of her support with her earned income, so the program says she is not eligible for the American Opportunity Credit or any other credit. So, I guess she will not be able to claim a tuition credit either.
Appreciate any other suggestions you may have.
The reason why room and board does not appear in the 1098 T interview is that this not a qualified educational expense that is applied to the credit. The only place room and board will appear in the return is that if you reported a scholarship amount in Box 5. There will be a follow-up question that will be asked if you used the scholarship to pay for room and board. If you answer yes, then the full amount of the scholarship may be taxable because it wasn't used to pay a qualified educational expense.
Room and board is a qualified expense for a 529 plan distribution and is accounted for as you list the educational expenses that were paid for in the distribution. When you report 1098 T educational expenses in your return, be sure you exclude amounts that were reported against your 1099Q distribution amounts minus the room and board amount.
She can claim her own dependency on her own return because there is no qualifying asking if she provided more than 1/2 of her support. If in her return, the box is marked that she can be claimed as a dependent of someone else, then she is ineligible to claim the credit on her own return. The only time that question appears if you are claiming her as a dependent and if you provided more than 1/2 of her support.
if you claim he as a dependent, you may receive the educational credit. If she claims her own dependency and not claim she is a dependent of someone else, she may take the credit.
[Edited 04/12/24|7:15 am PST]
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