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Calculating Support with Scholarship

Hi Al thank you - however there’s a discrepancy with what you told me in one answer versus what you told me and this answer. 
I had asked in one of my questions if he’s independent this year can he then be dependent in 2022 in the next year and you said yes. 

however now you are saying no he would not be able to be. 

 

The reason why I ask is because next year is going to be different he will not have a large scholarship and he’s going for a masters degree and he is going to need financial help to pay rent off campus because they have nothing on campus…. he will be going full-time and he will not be able to pay 50% of his support. so this year 2021 was very different. 

I don’t know how to go back and look at where I asked that question before but I specifically asked if he was independent this year could he file dependent next year and you said yes and now you’re saying no. Can you please clarify and I appreciate so much your help will you be available through Monday because I have to get the taxes done by then! 

Calculating Support with Scholarship

I responded to you and I’m not very good at how to navigate this response and finding stuff but I did go back and find the question that I had about if he’s independent this year can he  not be independent the next year-There was a typo so maybe you misunderstood what I was saying I should’ve said if he’s independent this year can I be dependent next year

this was your response but now your most recent one you said if he’s independent in 2021 then he cannot be my dependent in 2022 which he’s going to be going for a masters he is going for a masters and he needs help financially until spring of 2023 from fall of 2022 so although he’s independent this year he will not be independent next year are you saying that the IRS will not allow you to become a dependent after you were an independent? 
This was your question and answer that you sent me

Q. Can he be indpendent one year and no the next? 

A. Yes

Hal_Al
Level 15

Calculating Support with Scholarship

Q. Can he be independent one year and no the next? 

A. Yes

That  means there is no rule against doing that, if the circumstances change.

Q.  Are you saying that the IRS will not allow you to become a dependent after you were an independent? 

A.  No. There is no such rule. 

 

When I said "But, that also means he cannot go back to being your dependent for 2022", I assumed two circumstances do not change: 1. He still does not reside with you and 2. He still has more than $4300 of income.  His support changing, alone, is not enough. 

If he does not reside with you, he cannot be your qualifying child dependent.  If he has more than $4300 of taxable income, he cannot be your qualifying relative dependent.  Even if he has less than $4300 of income, you must provide more than half his support for him to be a qualifying relative (as oppossed to him only having to provide less than half his own support to be a qualifying child).

 

 

Calculating Support with Scholarship

Wow thanks for your patience and answering questions I hope you’re gonna be around till Monday?? i’ll have to go back and reread what you wrote because my head is spinning!! 

what might possibly happen is his father will be providing the support since I won’t be able to afford to… and I believe my son has exhausted his savings and his earnings to support himself in the last two years . In 2019 I thought that legally had to put down that he Could be claimed  on somebody else’s taxes…. i’m not sure if that was right so my accountant that his father had did his taxes and put him down as independent but made a lot of mistakes and his father did not realize an extension to file is not an extension to pay so I took over the taxes in 2020 because he also is supposed to pay estimated taxes since his job was self-employed even though it was an internship. And he had a sizable scholarship so I was told by other parents from Princeton that he had to do estimated payment so I’ve been doing that since 2020. In those years his residency was off-campus because the school was closed because of Covid and then partially at his fathers. 
But both Times I put down that he could be claimed on somebody’s taxes. This would be the first year that I would be putting him down as independent partially pressured by his father to do so but I wanted to make sure it was legal so thank you for your help.

Q: so a question for you that I have is there is no box for being claimed on somebody else’s taxes it only says “can you be claimed” on somebody else’s taxes and I don’t know if the state insurance considers that as being independent or do they assume that you have been claimed on somebody else’s taxes and how would they know if you were claimed on somebody else’s taxes? Why isn’t there a box for independent? I read in some article that if you don’t mark off a box that your return will get rejected but none of the boxes fit if he doesn’t claim that he can be a dependent. 

Well his taxes get rejected? 

 

As far as Residency for 2022 the spring and the fall calendar year…. He had a large scholarship for the spring of 2022 but he will not have a scholarship for the fall of 2022 and the spring of 2023. I have asked him and his father if  his savings and his and earnings  provide  50% of his support and his father will not give me a direct answer - he controls my son‘s money it’s a bad situation  - 

but I know pretty certainly that my son has provided his full support since in college -he also used his savings… I am assuming that his savings can be considered part of his support? But because of the residency and the fact that he only started doing taxes in 2019 because he wasn’t required before that I have only been putting down can be claimed. 
now I believe he has exhausted his savings by providing his own support along with his earnings. And that is why 2022 will be different. 
His rent is substantial because he’s off-campus at Princeton University and I’m not paying for any of it because I don’t have the money I never got child support… and I’m on disability… he will either be getting help from his father or his father is going to talk him into taking out loans which I know then might count as him supporting himself like my daughter did with loans. 


Q:

so when I said he might be dependent in 2022 it depends on if he takes loans out or if his father provide support and I guess what you’re saying is it also depends if he lives with his father during school breaks? I would only be able to claim him if he lived with me during school breaks even if I don’t provide half of his support? thanks 

 

what are your hours between now and Monday!? 

Calculating Support with Scholarship

Oh my God I’m sorry for that long ramble my hands tremble so I’m transcribing into my phone and it’s on organized I really appreciate how you condense it and put down question and answer to make it clear I’m sorry mine is rambling and confusing! Lisa 

Calculating Support with Scholarship

Hi I’m sorry for all these questions I’m not sure if your name is Hal or Al…

I have another very important question about how magi is calculated. 
my son has a traditional IRA for 2021 with the sole purpose of bringing down his income so that he could qualify for New Jersey family care Medicaid health insurance which is why we also thought he had to be independent because I don’t know if him being able to be claimed independent even if he’s not will screw up his eligibility. 

 

New Jersey family care uses Magi - modified adjusted gross income. I thought that meant that it would be his income minus the IRA deduction which brings him to about $17,000 and you cannot make more than 18,000. Most of his income is from the scholarship. Without the IRA he’s about 23,000. But the cut off is 18,000 so we thought the IRA would bring him down. 
But New Jersey family care Medicaid uses  modified adjusted gross income- When I look it up it says to get that number which is not on the income tax form only the adjusted gross income is you need to take your adjusted gross income and you have to add back the IRA which means he won’t qualify!! There is a legal service in northern New Jersey and they have the only article that I read that said in fact you deduct the IRA to get the modified adjusted gross income to see if you are eligible for New Jersey family care. When I read about modified adjusted gross income it is very confusing but most of it looks like you have to add back the IRA can you please tell me if this is the case?? Some articles talk about how modified adjusted gross income is used to determine if you can do a Roth IRA or whatever that means but it clearly states in most of the articles that you have to add back an IRA and the only reason for taking out the IRA was to lower his income so he would qualify for New Jersey family care Medicaid.

Can you please tell me if the modified adjusted gross income subtract the IRA or you have to add it back in? That would make everything moot - His father has in my New Jersey family care and they’re going to get dropped so he has to apply on his own and that was the whole reason for him being independent if he was eligible - now the other issue a bigger issue is his income they don’t let you take out the scholarship but we thought the IRA could be deducted to get modified adjusted gross income and I’m reading now most articles say the opposite you have to add it back in and one article from a legal service that was specifically writing about modified adjusted gross income for a qualification for Medicaid New Jersey family care said you deduct it … The New Jersey family care Medicaid website says it follows the modified adjusted gross income as per the tax laws. That makes me think that the legal service is incorrect because all the other articles like Google so you have to add back in the IRA which will make him in eligible. Can you please clarify thank you so much! 

Hal_Al
Level 15

Calculating Support with Scholarship

There is no one definition of MAGI (modified adjusted gross income). MAGI is calculated differently depending on the purpose.

 

It appears that, for your purposes, New Jersey family care Medicaid defines what MAGI is, not the IRS.  I don't think anybody in this tax forum is going to be able to help you with that question.

 

 

 

Calculating Support with Scholarship

Thanks 

but the Nj famcare website says specifically that they moved to using modified adjusted gross income so that it would be uniform and they specifically say that it’s defined the same way as the tax code. And they require taxes. So the definitions that say the modified adjusted gross income adds back certain deductions that you had taken - is not the general definition? 
I was going to screenshot it here from the New Jersey family care website but I can’t figure out how to do it - It does reference using the modified adjusted gross income as defined by the tax code.

When you say there’s not one definition do you mean because everybody would add back their deductions and they could all vary. 
my question is do you deduct or add back the deductions that you took? 

And are you saying that even that can vary that somewhat Definitions have you deduct from your adjusted gross income and that’s your modified adjusted gross income or some can have you add to your modified adjusted gross income certain deductions that you had taken. In this case it would be an IRA and everything I read said to add it back in except for one article by a low income legal service that said you deduct it however like I said the New Jersey family care website says to use modified adjusted income as per the tax code. 
So in general would that the adding back certain deductions or subtracting certain deductions? Thanks again. 

Calculating Support with Scholarship

I’m sorry I accidentally private message this to you I meant to put it out in the forum as you can see I’m not good at navigating this
Q Is Deadline missed if taxes get rejected on Oct 17

Hi I have been asking you a lot of questions about my son being able to claim independent and I just ask you something about modified adjusted gross income.

I see that I can start a new message to you with a different question. 
I am probably going to be not submitting these taxes until Monday electronically but my son also worked in Colorado so I have to submit the federal the New Jersey and the Colorado and I don’t think Colorado is able to do electronic filing.

Q But my question is what if I submit the federal and New Jersey electronically on October 17 and they get rejected-Will my son then get a penalty for late taxes. I know I’ll probably have to go to the post office for the Colorado taxes. 

Q I also read that if you don’t fill in the box that you could be claimed by somebody else that your taxes could get rejected so where is the box for independent? 

Q do you work for TurboTax or are you just a member of the community who is an most knowledgeable on taxes? 

Thanks 

Calculating Support with Scholarship

Hi Hal or Al- 

am I supposed to be typing these into a message to you directly? I was reading through some information about scholarships and I have a question about a loophole that you mentioned in one of your answers. I also have questions about my daughters many required fees and classes as part of her nursing program that I also so I mentioned in a question to you. 

 

I have never nor have my kids claimed the American lifetime opportunity credit. My sons box 5 is greater than his box one on his 1098T. My daughters was but not by much and she did not need to file taxes until this year because of a job that she had combined with the 1098t. 

Q my kids are now 22 and graduated already in 2022. Was I eligible to do some thing to be able to get the American opportunity lifetime credit? I did not think that we qualified and usually I don’t even file taxes because I only have Social Security disability income. Could I or my children been able to get the a American opportunity credit?

can we amend prior tax returns or is it not worth it and for this year 2021…. I thought when I went through TurboTax that it said my son was not eligible for the credit?  I plan on doing my taxes this year even though I don’t need to but who would claim the opportunity credit if my son files independent would it be him and how is that done I don’t understand this loophole.  this pertains to both my daughter and my son they are twins. 

 

Q My daughter also had a 1098 t with 8k amount Of box 5 over box one this year and prior years it was about 2-3000. She never had to file taxes until this year because she had an income of 10,000+ the 1098 put her over the standard deduction. 
She is in a nursing program and has many CPR CNA?? Many additional fees required for nursing but she never filed taxes so she should she have?

Q You mentioned there’s a way to modify the 1098T and not use the actual numbers? Is there a way to subtract out all of these fees and CPR classes that she had? 

Is it too late to go back in time and should we just focus on this year. I’m doing my sons taxes and their father is doing my daughters I don’t think he’s aware of anything regarding the American opportunity act Or adjusting the 1098T

Q can you please explain how to get the American opportunity act if my son has a scholarship and Turbotax says he doesn’t qualify and also how to go in and change the 1098T for my daughters nursing fees. 
thanks so much 

 

Hal_Al
Level 15

Calculating Support with Scholarship

Q.  Am I supposed to be typing these into a message to you directly?

A. No. You are doing it correctly.  Although you may want to strat a new thread, if you change the topic. A new thread will "get more eyes" on your question.

 

As to the "loop hole", this is my standard answer, which you may have already seen:

The student reports all his scholarship, up to the amount needed to claim the American Opportunity Credit (AOC), as income on his return. That way, the parents  (or himself, if he is not a dependent) can claim the tuition credit on their return. They can do this because that much tuition was no longer paid by "tax free" scholarship.  You cannot do this if the school’s billing statement specifically shows the scholarships being applied to tuition or if the conditions of the grant are that it be used to pay for qualified expenses.

Using an example: Student has $10,000 in box 5 of the 1098-T and $8000 in box 1. At first glance he/she has $2000 of taxable income and nobody can claim the American opportunity credit. But if she reports $6000 as income on her return, the parents can claim $4000 of qualified expenses on their return.

Books and computers are also qualifying expenses for the AOC. So, extending the example, the student had another $1000 in expenses for those course materials, paid out of pocket, she would only need to report $5000 of taxable scholarship income, instead of $6000.

The AOC is up to 40% ($1000) refundable.  Students under 24 are, generally, not eligible for the refundable portion, on their own returns.  Parents are, if the student is their dependent.

 

You can file amended returns (up to 3 years) to claim the credit. The student would also have to file amended returns to report the additional scholarship income. 

 

You can't claim the credit, on your return,  if he files indendent.  He can claim the credit if he files independent, but not the refundable portion (the under 24/earned income support rule).

 

 

Calculating Support with Scholarship

Thank you!! I changed my username and now it seems like you didn’t get this???   I’m sorry I re sent  you the same question I forgot I had asked it. 
You give answers More relevant to my situation- So what you sent me was better than when I found searching
1) since my only income is Social Security disability I don’t pay taxes so I would only get a refundable portion of 1000 on my taxes correct? but if my son claim is independent then I don’t get this credit? 

2) And then my son would have to increase his income by $4000?? So if He is independent he can claim the credit if he increases his income by $4000 but what good does that do? And you mentioned he would not get the refundable part back but I don’t understand why just because independent … also his taxes are looking like he’s getting a refund but that’s because I have been doing estimated taxes for him the last two years because he had a self employed internship one year and large scholarship and I found out he needed to do estimated taxes so it looks like he’s getting a refund even though it’s because I paid what he owed in April and then did estimated taxes so how would a credit work for him? It sounds like in my circumstances that it really wouldn’t be worth it unless I claimed him as a dependent because I don’t see how it helps him if he hast to increase his income. I have to go back and look at your answer again because you said something about increasing the income by $4000 but isn’t the credit only $2500? 
It sounds like to me for our situation it wouldn’t work? 
3)this is important -  If my son is independent on his taxes and if his income is too high to qualify for New Jersey family care… And he’s losing his benefits in two months would he be able to get on my prior employer’s benefits as my dependent If his taxes say he’s independent ?? I no longer qualify for my lifetime benefits because I went on disability and when I qualified for Medicare they unexpectedly dropped me even though they were supposed to be lifetime benefits but my kids still qualify - but it would be $11,000 with a $4000 deductible on top of me separately having to pay for my own plan with the premium of 7000. It’s not affordable. If we all could be on my former employer plan it would work out but that’s not the case. 

This is a super important question because his father sent me an email yesterday that he and my son are getting dropped  from health insurance Nj fam care definitely as early as January. Because the father hasn’t worked in decades supported financially by his father he has no employer to keep the kids on till they’re 26. He qualified for  12 years of free Nj fam care - Since he 

doesn’t work and has no income and they don’t look at assets. Something must’ve changed that he’s getting dropped now.  I surmise that he’s going to get on his fiancé‘s plan and said my son was on his own to figure out what to do. 

I covered the twins for 19 years.thru my employer until I was dropped due to Medicare. Then they got on his father New Jersey Medicare plan for 3 years but are getting dropped I believe they were on because of Covid they were not dropping people. We thought the IRA would drop my sons  income enough that he woul qualify if he was independent to try to apply on his own.. but it depends on how they calculate modified adjusted gross income and it seems like it gets added back in . However my kids are still eligible for My employer medical but as a family plan it’s insanely expensive as I said - if I could be on it with them that would be a different story. 

So the question is- if my son is independent and he doesn’t qualify for New Jersey family care because they use the modified adjusted income which may or may not deduct the IRA and from everything else I’ve been reading in order to get modified adjusted gross income you have to add back an IRA deduction  so he would be making too much - if I had to absolutely put him on my insurance the big question is if he files independent on taxes can I get him on my employer insurance as my dependent even if I don’t claim him on my taxes as a dependent? 

I thought he would be able to qualify for New Jersey family care but it’s not looking good unless you think that the IRA can be deducted but I can’t even get an answer from New Jersey family care about that. 

thanks so very much 

Calculating Support with Scholarship

Changed username 

Calculating Support with Scholarship

I changed my user name to chaosx2 and after that I haven’t gotten a response from you over clarification on the American opportunity credit which is not a big deal and the second question which was a big deal.

 

it looks like my son is going to lose his healthcare insurance sooner than I thought in January. and it doesn’t look like he’s going to qualify for New Jersey family care unless they allow the IRA deduction for the modified adjusted income. in case he does not qualify…can he go on insurance from prior employer if he files independent on his taxes Or must he file dependent so that I could count him  as dependent for health insurance. I left my company with lifetime benefits but I went on disability and when I qualified for Medicare they threw me off but they’re allowing my children to stay on at an exorbitant cost and only as a family plan with a huge deductible and I cannot be part of it so I have to pay all my Medicare premiums comes to $7000 a year my kids would be 11,000 with  deductible of 4000-And I have a lot of out-of-pocket costs so it’s just not affordable for me- I had them covered till 2019 and then they went on their fathers New Jersey family care plan… he does not work and so he has no employer to keep them on a plan till 26 and I surmise he’s going on a plan with his fiancé. he told me my son was on his own to find insurance. 

It’s doubtful he’s going to qualify. If he doesn’t - my question is if My son files as independent on his tax return then can I still put him  on my insurance as a dependent? In other words does he have to be my dependent on my taxes in order for him to qualify for my healthcare insurance at my prior employer.? I know that they allow kids to stay on until 26 but their father has no employee insurance and mine is insanely expensive. He just told me my son is on his own to find insurance and he’s only 22. So do I have to claim him as my dependent on taxes for him to qualify as dependent for healtcare or can he be independent? because I’m sure there’s 24 year olds that are independent and have parents employer insurance  up to age 26…but I don’t know if that means the parents have to claim them as dependents on taxes. Thanks 

Hal_Al
Level 15

Calculating Support with Scholarship

Q. Since my only income is Social Security disability I don’t pay taxes so I would only get a refundable portion of $1000 on my taxes correct?

A. Yes.

 

Q. But if my son claim is independent then I don’t get this credit? 

A. That's correct.

 

Q.  And you mentioned he would not get the refundable part back but I don’t understand why just because independent.

A. That's just a rule. Congress created the credit for parents, not young students.  Reference: Line 7 instructions for form 8863. https://www.irs.gov/instructions/i8863

 

Q. You said something about increasing the income by $4000 but isn’t the credit only $2500?

A.  The $4000 additional income is taxed at 12% (maybe only 10%).  $4000 x 0.12 = $480.  That's what you compare the $2500 credit to. 

 

The rest of your post is about health insurance and state benefits.  This forum is only about income tax and TurboTax software.  I don't think anyone here is going to be able help you with those questions. 

 

 

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