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BillyWoolfolk
Returning Member

US Citizen Retired in Japan -- Social Security and IRA Distributions

I, a US Citizen, have moved to Japan and will be receiving Social Security Benefits and Traditional IRA Distributions. I will be taxed in Japan on both. I am not 100% sure, but I think this is what I have to do in the US:

First, pay taxes on both in Japan

Social Security -- Form 8833, gives Japan exclusive right to tax our Social Security. The US should then not treat it as taxable income.

IRA -- Form 1116, Foreign Tax Credit for taxes already paid on this money in Japan

Am I correct?  Will TurboTax (Premium) know how to do this and will it ask the right questions, or will I have to go in and tell it I am in this situation?  

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2 Replies
pk
Level 15
Level 15

US Citizen Retired in Japan -- Social Security and IRA Distributions

@BillyWoolfolk  

(a) TurboTax is quite capable of handling your situation  ( generally ).  My personal favorite  is  Windows download  "Home & Business".

(b)  Generally agreeing with you  and noting  that  { and unlike OECD model and most tax treaties ) US-Japan Tax Treaty  requires / allows  only the resident  country to tax  the pensions from public sources -- thus  SSA income is taxable only by Japan.   See ---------  Japan - Tax treaty documents | Internal Revenue Service

 

Specifically  and from technical explanation ---- 

 

"Article 17 (Pensions, Social Security, Annuities, and Support Payments) This article deals with the taxation of private (i.e., non-government service) pensions and annuities, social security benefits, and support payments. Paragraph 1 Paragraph 1 provides, as a general rule, that the Contracting State of residence of the beneficial owner has the exclusive right to tax pensions and other similar remuneration. The phrase “pensions and other similar remuneration” includes both periodic and lump-sum payments. The phrase “pension and other similar remuneration” is intended to encompass payments made by a pension fund, as defined in subparagraph 1(m) of Article 3 (General Definitions), or any other payment made by private retirement plans and arrangements in consideration of past employment. Pensions in respect of government service (other than social security payments, as discussed below) generally are not covered by this paragraph, but rather are covered by paragraph 2 of Article 18 (Government Service). Thus, Article 18 covers section 457, 401(a) and 403(b) plans established for government employees. If a pension in respect of government service is not covered by Article 18 solely because the service is not “in the discharge of functions of a governmental nature,” the pension is covered by this Article. Paragraph 1 also provides for exclusive residence-country taxation of social security benefits. Like the prior Convention, but unlike the U.S. Model, the Convention provides that social security payments made by one of the Contracting States to a resident of the other Contracting State will be taxable only in the other Contracting State. This provision applies to social security beneficiaries, whether they have contributed to the system as private-sector or government employees. The provision is intended to include United States Tier 1 Railroad Retirement benefits. Paragraph 2 Under paragraph 2, any annuities derived and beneficially owned by an individual who is a resident of a Contracting State is taxable only in that Contracting State. The term “annuities” means a stated sum paid periodically at stated times during the life of the individual, or during a specified or ascertainable period of time, under an obligation to make the payments in return for adequate and full consideration (other than in return for services rendered). The term “annuities” does not include any pensions or similar remuneration that is described in paragraph 1. Annuities received in consideration for services rendered would be treated as deferred compensation and generally taxable in accordance with Article 7 (Business Profits) or Article 14 (Income from Employment), not Article 17. 7

 

To achieve this  you would have to recognize the  SSA income on your US return and then under  "other income"  enter a negative SSA amount  with a comment  " US-Japan Tax Treaty 2017 , article  XX ". IMO, it is the taxable portion of the SSA that needs to be excluded and not the total -- you are trying to achieve zero taxation of the SSA in the US and let Japan tax  the income.

Is there more I can do for you ?

BillyWoolfolk
Returning Member

US Citizen Retired in Japan -- Social Security and IRA Distributions

Thank you for the reply.

You wrote: "then under  "other income"  enter a negative SSA amount  with a comment"

I have been surfing around and--though I can't remember where I saw it--I found someone saying the way to handle this is to add Social Security income in 6a, then put $0 in 6b, which is the taxable portion of social security, and then attach Form 8833 to support that $0 taxable claim.  But, it seems TurboTax does not handle 8833 so I wouldn't be able to file electronically. I would have to print out, attach the 8833, and mail my return. 

Now that I have your, "Other Income" reply, I need to start searching around again and see if others have done it this way. 

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