@dsyhome0510 wrote:
DavidD 66:
Thank you for clarification on deadline question. Your help is much appreciated.
Now I have another question, related to prorate rule.
The 2 contributions to traditional IRA and then 2 conversions to Roth IRA were done during May and June for 2020/2021 tax years, with Fidelity accounts. the traditional IRA account was clear after the conversion, nothing left by Dec 31 2021.
However, in August 2021 I rolled over ~700k from employer 401k account to a newly opened IRA at Mass Mutual, for retirement financial plans. I totally overlooked the tax impact of this new IRA account, which made my total traditional IRA transactions (Fidelity and MML) at end of year mixed with nondeductible and 401k money. Will this trigger pro rata rule? if yes what is the impact, and do i have options to reduce the impact by stopping 2021 conversion via recharacterization?
Thanks for advice
You can NEVER withdraw ONLY the nondeductible part - it must be prorated over the entire value of ALL Traditional IRA accounts which include SEP and SIMPLE IRA's. (For tax purposes you only have ONE Traditional IRA which can be split between as many different accounts as you want, but for tax purposes they are all added together).
For example using rough figures: if you had $60K of nondeductible contributions in an IRA with a total value of $600K (10:1 ratio), then when you take a $60K distribution from any IRA account $6,000 would be nontaxable and $54,000 would be taxable (same 10:1 ratio) , with the remaining $54K of basis staying in the IRA for future distributions. As long as there is any money in the IRA, there will be some basis.
TurboTax will ask for your non-deductible "basis" and then the *Total Value* of *all* Traditional IRA, SEP and SIMPLE accounts as of Dec 31, of the tax year. That is so the prorating of the basis can be properly proportioned between the current years distribution and the remaining IRA value. That is done on the 8606 form.
If you are doing a "backdoor Roth" then here is what you should know:
The "Backdoor Roth" does not exist in tax law. It is a procedure used by some to take advantage of a quirk in tax law that allows making a non-deductible contribution to a Traditional IRA when one cannot contribute to a Roth IRA, and the immediately converting the Traditional IRA to a Roth IRA, thereby getting the money into the Roth via "backdoor" tax free. [Congress has been talking about changing the tax law to prohibit this but has not yet done so.]
That "procedure" can only work of all these requirements are met:
1) No Traditional IRA account whatsoever can exist (that includes any SEP or SIMPLE IRA accounts) at the start. If existing IRA's contain any before-tax money or earnings then it will be partly taxable.
2) The Tradition IRA contributions must be reported on a 8606 form as non-deductible.
3) The conversion to a ROTH must be shortly after the contribution to avoid taxable gains.
4) The entire Traditional IRA value must be zero that the end of the year of conversion.
Otherwise the conversion will be partly taxable.
First you must enter your Traditional IRA contributions (if there were 2021 contributions).
IRA contribution
Federal Taxes,
Deductions & Credits,
I’ll choose what I work on (if that screen comes up),,
Retirement & Investments,
Traditional & Roth IRA contribution.
Be SURE to answer the follow up that the are choosing to make this contribution NON-DEDUCTIBLE - if that screen comes up. (DO NOT say that you moved (recharacterized) the money to a Roth) – this is a conversion, not a recharactorazition.
Then enter the 1099-R that shows the distribution.
Federal Taxes,
Wages & Income
I’ll choose what I work on (if that screen comes up),,
Retirement Plans & Social Security,
IRA, 401(k), Pension Plan Withdrawals (1099-R).
Answer the follow-up questions answer the question that you moved the money to another retirement. The screen will open up with choices of where it was moved. Choose you converted it to Roth IRA.
When asked if you have made any non-deductible contributions say " "yes" if you did then enter the non-deductible contributions made for tax years before 2021. (Usually zero unless you also made a 2020 or earlier non-deductible contribution. If you do have prior year basis then enter the last filed 8606 line 14 value.).
Enter the 2021 year end value of your Traditional IRA a "0" (zero) - if it is in fact zero - this tax free Roth conversion will not work if it is not zero.
[If you had any other Traditional IRA at the end of 2021, then the nondeductible "basis" must be pro-rated over the current distribution and the total IRA value and only a portion of the Roth conversion will be non taxable and part will be taxable, with the remaining non-deductible basis carrying forward for future distributions. You can never only withdrew the nondeductible basis as long as the IRA exists and has a value more than zero.]
The non-deductible amount of your contribution will be subtracted from the taxable amount of the conversion on then 8606 form and enter on line 4a of them 1040 form and a zero taxable amount on line 4b if you did it right.
Also see this TurboTax FAQ:
https://ttlc.intuit.com/questions/4350747-how-do-i-enter-a-backdoor-roth-ira-conversion
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**Disclaimer: This post is for discussion purposes only and is NOT tax advice. The author takes no responsibility for the accuracy of any information in this post.**
