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but this way will bring out self employment tax. of note, as trader, supposed to be not. thx
good question. I don't have an answer. Any expert on this subject? Thanks
I'm using the desktop version - TurboTax Premier.
Let's all back up and look at the actual IRS rules. See Topic No. 429 Traders in Securities (Information for Form 1040 for the required reporting based on investor, trader or dealer.
Notice:
If you haven't done the above, you are not a trader, regardless of your transaction numbers. You are a sch D investor.
This is not true. There is nothing is the IRS rules that state you must have made the mark to market election in last years taxes in order to qualify as a trader. Please do not spread misinformation. I’ve spoken with numerous experts on this and the mark to market election is an option for traders to elect, but is not required to qualify for TTS.
This is my understanding too, i.e. there is no direct link between the trader status and mark-to-market election.
But what about the question on the self-employment tax? Thanks
i read some
If you’re a trader who has not made the mark-to-market election, your trading expenses go on Schedule C, the form used to report business income and expenses. But your trading income is capital gain, and has to be reported on Schedule D. This looks very strange indeed to tax professionals who are not familiar with trader filing, but this is how it is done.
dont know how to handle those sch c and D . seems double income
Let me repeat, directly from the IRS website See Topic No. 429 Traders in Securities (Information for Form 1040 for the required reporting based on investor, trader or dealer.
If a trader doesn't make a valid mark-to-market election under section 475(f), then he or she must treat the gains and losses from sales of securities as capital gains and losses and report the sales on Schedule D (Form 1040), Capital Gains and Losses and on Form 8949, Sales and Other Dispositions of Capital Assets as appropriate. When reporting on Schedule D, both the limitations on capital losses and the wash sales rules continue to apply.
Thx. But how report to Sch C on business income if reporting to Sch D if I claimed my trader instead of investor ?
Without the mark to market election, only your expenses will go on schedule C since the income is already reported on sch D. A negative sch C imposes no SE tax. Since 80% of daytraders lose money, without the mark to market election, your losses are still limited to $3,000.
From the IRS, Day trading :
Traders report their business expenses on Schedule C (Form 1040), Profit or Loss From Business (Sole Proprietorship). Commissions and other costs of acquiring or disposing of securities aren't deductible but must be used to figure gain or loss upon disposition of the securities. See Topic No. 703, Basis of Assets. Gains and losses from selling securities from being a trader aren't subject to self-employment tax.
In order to file a sch C, you must be a business. From Day trading :
To be engaged in business as a trader in securities, you must meet all of the following conditions:
The following facts and circumstances should be considered in determining if your activity is a securities trading business:
From Small Business and Self-Employed Tax Center
Publication 535, Business Expenses
Publication 334, Tax Guide for Small Business, For Individuals Who Use Schedule C
@spencer00 I hope this clears it up for you. Sch C has no income, only expenses for those without the mark to market election.
Thx. Question I got quite bit Gain from Day trade . I wouldn’t be able to contribute my retirement account from the capital gain if no income reported on Sch C. I definitely meet the IRS trader criteria. OF note , I don’t have mark to market election last year.
@spencer00 If you did not make the Mark to Market Election, you are not a Day Trader. You can't just decide that you are one and that's it. The IRS is very clear on this. If the criteria you meet is the one listed by AmyC, then the criteria is that you have a business. But that business is not that of a Day Trader.
Beginning in 1997 the IRS permitted active traders, who have qualified for "trader tax status" with the IRS and operate as a trading business, to elect a method of accounting called Mark-To-Market (MTM).
Traders can choose to use the mark-to-market rules, investors can't. If a trader doesn't make a valid mark-to-market election under section 475(f), then he or she must treat the gains and losses from sales of securities as capital gains and losses and report the sales on Schedule D (Form 1040), Capital Gains and Losses and on Form 8949, Sales and Other Dispositions of Capital Assets as appropriate.
Topic No. 429
It is possible to be both an investor and a trader. You would need to keep separate accounts, one for long term investments and one for short term trades that take advantage of market fluctuations. You can make the trader election for next year. The problem is that trading always seems to be something people fall into when they don't have a job; the business lasting usually a year.
In addition, the IRS will only treat it as a business if you show gains 3 out of every 5 years. Otherwise, they treat it as a hobby.
You are confusing "Professional Trader" who elects MTM under Section 475,
and Day Trader,
who is in the business of trading for a living.
The correct way to file as a Day Trader may appear in one of the myriad threads in this forum on the topic,
but which one is the true one, no one is to know.
Many persons are posting what they made up as the went along, and have convinced themselves it is correct.
There's a pretty straightforward discussion of Trader v.s. Investor here:
https://www.thetaxadviser.com/issues/2010/feb/sec475mark-to-marketelection.html
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