Lots of problems with this form in the Windows Turbotax Premium desktop edition.
I had no DC FSA contribution reported on my W2 in 2021, but had a carryover from 2020 because of COVID. If there is no amount in Box 10 of a W2, Turbotax does not walk you through the pages to enter information about your dependent care situation (e.g., employer onsite care, did you have a FSA, any balance in FSA at year end). I had to put $1 in Box 10 to get these pages and also to get Part III of Form 2441 generated. I'm uncertain if the IRS will reject or flag my return because of this W2 modification. It won't match what my employer sent in.
The generated Form 2441 from Turbotax has incorrect values in some of the fields:
This is a pretty significant issue this late in the tax filing season. Is anyone else having this issue?
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I've done a lot of research on this. I am 100% convinced that Turbotax has a problem with form 2441 Child and Dependent Care Expenses when you have DC FSA carryover from 2020 to 2021 and don't have any 2021 Dependent Care Flexible Spending Account (DC FSA) contributions. It may relate to handling DC FSA carryover regardless of your DC FSA contributions for 2021. Here is what I have observed.
First, it seems like Taxbotax is using a non-zero/blank amount in Box 10 of your W2 to determine if they will walk you through a set of W2 pages to capture DC FSA benefit information (e.g., did employer provide onsite daycare, do you have a DC FSA, balance amount in your DC FSA at the end of 2021). Apparently, having an amount in Box 10 also triggers the creation of form 2441, and specifically Part III of the form so it can save the DC FSA balance information you entered on 2441 Line 14. If there is no amount in W2 Box 10 you are not walked through these pages and no 2441 form is created as part of this process.
Second, when you enter your dependent care expenses in the Deductions and Credits section, this is where Turbotax wants you to enter any DC FSA carryover you had from 2020 to 2021. Turbotax will only walk you through the screen to enter the carryover amount if you had an amount in your W2 Box 10 (or have 2441 Part III included in your return—I don’t know which). Like I stated above, I believe Turbotax creates Part III as part of the W2 entry process when there is a value in Box 10.
Third, if you fake out Turbotax by putting an amount in your W2 Box 10, enter your FSA information as part of the W2 process, and enter your DC FSA carryover amount when entering your dependent care expense, there is still an additional problem. Turbotax is not subtracting the carryover amount you entered in the Deductions and Credits section and stored in 2441 Line 13 from Box 2(c) on form 2441. This causes a number of fields on form 2441 to be incorrect. The 2441 instructions clearly state that the amount in 2441 Line 2(c) excludes any rollover amount in Line 31. The amount in 2441 Part III Line 31 is derived from what's in Line 13 via a complicated set of steps.
I've talked to Turbotax customer support a couple of times and they don't acknowledge the problem and won't take ownership for researching the problem.
Here is what I decided to do to get the correct Child and Dependent Care credit on my 2441 form, and therefore on 1040 Schedule 3 (line 15).
One last comment in case TurboTax is listening. I believe they need to re-engineer this process. Entering/verifying information related to your DC FSA benefits in two different places is confusing (i.e., in the W2 section and the Child and Dependent Care Credit section). In the Child and Dependent Care Credit section they should ask if you have a DC FSA before/after you enter your dependent care expense information. If you do, they should walk you through an additional set of pages to validate your W2 Box 10 information, capture the additional DC FSA benefit information, and then complete form 2441 (Part I, II, and III, if required) at this point.
I have not heard of others having this issue, but I think if you go back through your W-2 form and take that $1 out of box 10, your 2441 form will be correct.
Since you have the FSA carryover information in your Form 2241, you can restore the W-2 form to the correct version:
I did what you state in your reply a couple of times before, and just did it again. It's not the solution. Here's what happens:
When I delete the $1 from Box 10 of my W2, I no longer get guided through a few Turbotax pages to answer questions relative to FSA benefit deduction in Box 10. I don't get to tell Turbotax that my employer doesn't have onsite child care, I don't get to tell Turbotax that I have a FSA, and I don't get to tell Turbotax the year end balance in my FSA. Also, Because I no longer have a value in Box 10, Turbotax doesn't generate Part III of form 2441. Part III is where you specify information about your FSA and the amount of FSA dollars used for dependent care. If I don't have a value in Box 10 of my W2 I also don't get the Turbotax page to enter the Carryover from 2020 used in 2021 to pay for child care expense. This Carryover page shows up when you enter the dependent care expenses in the Deductions & Credits section under FEDERAL TAXES in Turbotax.
Turbotax is only generating Part I & II for my return if Box 10 in my W2 is blank. Therefore, it's overstating the refund I should get. It's not subtracting the FSA carryover I used, because that's on Part III, which isn't present.
As I stated in my original post, If I put $1 in Box 10, it guides me through the additional pages to enter information about my FSA and generates Part III in form 2441. It also allows me to enter my 2020 FSA Carryover. All parts of Form 2441 are present, but unfortunately some of amounts the form are incorrect. See my initial post for details.
I'm in a no win situation.
@edhondl wrote:
I did what you state in your reply a couple of times before, and just did it again. It's not the solution. Here's what happens:
When I delete the $1 from Box 10 of my W2, I no longer get guided through a few Turbotax pages to answer questions relative to FSA benefit deduction in Box 10. I don't get to tell Turbotax that my employer doesn't have onsite child care, I don't get to tell Turbotax that I have a FSA, and I don't get to tell Turbotax the year end balance in my FSA. Also, Because I no longer have a value in Box 10, Turbotax doesn't generate Part III of form 2441. Part III is where you specify information about your FSA and the amount of FSA dollars used for dependent care. If I don't have a value in Box 10 of my W2 I also don't get the Turbotax page to enter the Carryover from 2020 used in 2021 to pay for child care expense. This Carryover page shows up when you enter the dependent care expenses in the Deductions & Credits section under FEDERAL TAXES in Turbotax.
Turbotax is only generating Part I & II for my return if Box 10 in my W2 is blank. Therefore, it's overstating the refund I should get. It's not subtracting the FSA carryover I used, because that's on Part III, which isn't present.
As I stated in my original post, If I put $1 in Box 10, it guides me through the additional pages to enter information about my FSA and generates Part III in form 2441. It also allows me to enter my 2020 FSA Carryover. All parts of Form 2441 are present, but unfortunately some of amounts the form are incorrect. See my initial post for details.
I'm in a no win situation.
If you are using the windows version installed on your own computer, you can switch to forms mode and directly enter the carryover amount on line 13 of form 2441. I will also check later for an interview solution.
To validate that there isn't anything messed up with my specific return that may be causing this problem, I created a completely new return in Turbotax.
I imported just my W2 (with no value in Box 10). Turbotax asked me to validate the W2 information imported, but it did not walk me through the pages to capture the FSA information. Nor do I have the option to force Turbotax to walk me through these pages when Box 10 is blank.
I then entered my child care expenses in the Deduction & Credits section under FEDERAL TAXES. I was not able to enter the FSA Carryover I had from 2020.
I did a File / Print in my return and viewed the generated return information. There was a Form 2441 in my return, but it only contained Parts I & II.
I think this proves there is a problem with Turbotax in how it is handling the Child and Dependent care credit when there are FSA benefits involved.
Yup, I already tried to override the amounts in Forms mode. Remember, there are multiple fields that have incorrect values on the form. I've overridden all of them in Forms mode. The problem with this solution is that Turbotax/IRS won't allow you to electronically file the return. I'm not going to go down this rabbit hole with all the publicity the IRS is getting with significant delays in handling paper returns.
@edhondl wrote:
Yup, I already tried to override the amounts in Forms mode. Remember, there are multiple fields that have incorrect values on the form. I've overridden all of them in Forms mode. The problem with this solution is that Turbotax/IRS won't allow you to electronically file the return. I'm not going to go down this rabbit hole with all the publicity the IRS is getting with significant delays in handling paper returns.
I don't have a solution for you. I can report this, but it likely won't be fixed by April 18. I agree it is a problem; entering the carryover on line 13 should cause the rest of part 3 to calculate automatically, and it does not.
If you switched from TT desktop to TT online, and upgraded to the full Live Online experience, your assigned expert can take over and file for your professionally if they can't succeed in helping you file with personal Turbotax. That's expensive, but it might be less expensive than visiting a tax pro in your area. Otherwise, you might try a different provider, or file by mail.
Or add $1 to box 10. I think the IRS is unlikely to give you grief over this (just my guess).
I've done a lot of research on this. I am 100% convinced that Turbotax has a problem with form 2441 Child and Dependent Care Expenses when you have DC FSA carryover from 2020 to 2021 and don't have any 2021 Dependent Care Flexible Spending Account (DC FSA) contributions. It may relate to handling DC FSA carryover regardless of your DC FSA contributions for 2021. Here is what I have observed.
First, it seems like Taxbotax is using a non-zero/blank amount in Box 10 of your W2 to determine if they will walk you through a set of W2 pages to capture DC FSA benefit information (e.g., did employer provide onsite daycare, do you have a DC FSA, balance amount in your DC FSA at the end of 2021). Apparently, having an amount in Box 10 also triggers the creation of form 2441, and specifically Part III of the form so it can save the DC FSA balance information you entered on 2441 Line 14. If there is no amount in W2 Box 10 you are not walked through these pages and no 2441 form is created as part of this process.
Second, when you enter your dependent care expenses in the Deductions and Credits section, this is where Turbotax wants you to enter any DC FSA carryover you had from 2020 to 2021. Turbotax will only walk you through the screen to enter the carryover amount if you had an amount in your W2 Box 10 (or have 2441 Part III included in your return—I don’t know which). Like I stated above, I believe Turbotax creates Part III as part of the W2 entry process when there is a value in Box 10.
Third, if you fake out Turbotax by putting an amount in your W2 Box 10, enter your FSA information as part of the W2 process, and enter your DC FSA carryover amount when entering your dependent care expense, there is still an additional problem. Turbotax is not subtracting the carryover amount you entered in the Deductions and Credits section and stored in 2441 Line 13 from Box 2(c) on form 2441. This causes a number of fields on form 2441 to be incorrect. The 2441 instructions clearly state that the amount in 2441 Line 2(c) excludes any rollover amount in Line 31. The amount in 2441 Part III Line 31 is derived from what's in Line 13 via a complicated set of steps.
I've talked to Turbotax customer support a couple of times and they don't acknowledge the problem and won't take ownership for researching the problem.
Here is what I decided to do to get the correct Child and Dependent Care credit on my 2441 form, and therefore on 1040 Schedule 3 (line 15).
One last comment in case TurboTax is listening. I believe they need to re-engineer this process. Entering/verifying information related to your DC FSA benefits in two different places is confusing (i.e., in the W2 section and the Child and Dependent Care Credit section). In the Child and Dependent Care Credit section they should ask if you have a DC FSA before/after you enter your dependent care expense information. If you do, they should walk you through an additional set of pages to validate your W2 Box 10 information, capture the additional DC FSA benefit information, and then complete form 2441 (Part I, II, and III, if required) at this point.
TurboTax online version is absolutely wrong on handling Form 2441. I completed my return and printed to PDF. Line 14 in Form 2441 is blank. Of course it's blank because the interview NEVER ASKS FOR CARRY OVER AMOUNT. Being the online product, it is IMPOSSIBLE to directly edit Form 2441. Intuit is selling a FAULTY PRODUCT.
@jeffpi wrote:
TurboTax online version is absolutely wrong on handling Form 2441. I completed my return and printed to PDF. Line 14 in Form 2441 is blank. Of course it's blank because the interview NEVER ASKS FOR CARRY OVER AMOUNT. Being the online product, it is IMPOSSIBLE to directly edit Form 2441. Intuit is selling a FAULTY PRODUCT.
I think the best workaround would be to add $1 of DCB to box 10 of your W-2. This will trigger the carryover question. (You may need to delete the W-2 and enter it again.) Since it doesn't change your tax or income, I don't think it will cause problems with the IRS, and you are more likely to get the right answer than the ad-hoc calculations described above. (If you don't enter your own correct info, you might not be covered by the accuracy guarantee.) I haven't gotten any response from TT either.
I'm trying to fill in my kids' 2021 summer camp cost, but somehow, Turbo tax did not give me opportunity to go through it. When I check none of "full time students" or "disabled", the system then leads me out of this item.
How and where can I fill in the summer camp cost?
Thanks!
In order to qualify for the Child and Dependent Care Credit, your children must be under 13 and the parent, or both parents on a joint return, must have earned income, or be a student , or be disabled.
Are both of those conditions met in your case?
Thanks for your reply!
Yes, Joint return, have earned income.
During 2021 summer, both kids were under 13.
And, my daughter turned 13 in Dec, 2021.
I tried Step by step walk through the questions, after I checked the first 3 questions, and then the system had me back to the main menu. I got nowhere to fill in the summer camps info.
I appreciate your help!
I'm wondering if you printed the tax return files, and mailed it out?
Thanks!
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