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You must still include the excess deferral as taxable income.
Then, since you can't remove the funds, you leave them in the account until you retire and make withdrawals, and you will pay tax on the funds again. (You don't get to claim a partial tax-free withdrawal because you already paid the tax.)
So if I leave the excess in the account IRS says I have a 6% penalty until I remove it? There must be a way to do something with the money instead of paying this penalty for the next 20 years? Remove it somehow- or apply it to another year contribution?
@Deb113 wrote:
So if I leave the excess in the account IRS says I have a 6% penalty until I remove it? There must be a way to do something with the money instead of paying this penalty for the next 20 years? Remove it somehow- or apply it to another year contribution?
There is no additional penalty if you over-contributed to a 401k, other than paying tax twice.**
There is a penalty if you over-contributed to an IRA.
A 401K is not an IRA, they are completely different. Which is it in this case?
(**Because a designated Roth 401k is normally not taxable if you withdraw after retirement, the consequences of an excess contribution are a bit odd, and I will need to ask for another expert to remind me. But first, let's clarify if this is an IRA or a 401k.)
It is a savings plan through my employer that is classified as a Roth 401k- money is taxed prior to funding.
@Deb113 wrote:
It is a savings plan through my employer that is classified as a Roth 401k- money is taxed prior to funding.
OK. To the best of my recollection: Contributing excess funds to a Roth 401k that you can't remove means that a portion of your 401K withdrawal when you retire is supposed to be taxable, even though a Roth normally is not taxable. However, the plan trustee doesn't keep track and there are no good instructions on how you should keep track, there is no specific tax form for this. So the thing most people do is probably to just leave it alone and hope the IRS doesn't notice, which they probably won't. (When you retire, if we assume the 401K is worth $500,000 and this excess is a few thousand, then less than 1% of your withdrawal would be taxable, very hard to track.)
But I will double check with an expert @dmertz
(Now, I do want to be extra careful. Some employers use a Payroll Deduction IRA. This is not a 401k. A payroll deduction IRA is where an IRA is opened in your name, and the employer makes contributions for you, so you don't forget. But this is an IRA in your name. You can make extra contributions up to the limits for IRAs, you can withdraw funds subject to the normal rules for IRA, and you pay the penalties for excess contribution as with any other IRA. Employers do this because the rules are much simpler for them than establishing a true 401k plan. If you have a payroll deduction IRA, your contribution limit is $7000 and there is a 6% penalty every year if you don't remove the excess contributions. If you have a true 401k, the contribution limit is $23,000 for voluntary deferrals, and $69,000 for total contributions (deferrals plus employer contributions). Because you mentioned 6% before, I want to be doubly-sure that you have a true 401k and not a payroll deduction IRA. If you have a true 401k, then my answers above are correct.)
Opus 17 is correct. The excess Roth 401(k) contribution and attributable earnings will be taxable upon eventual distribution, with the first amounts out being the excess and its attributable earnings.
See Designated Roth Contributions as Excess Deferrals in T.D. 9324 2007-22 I.R.B 1302:
@dmertz wrote:
Opus 17 is correct. The excess Roth 401(k) contribution and attributable earnings will be taxable upon eventual distribution, with the first amounts out being the excess and its attributable earnings.
See Designated Roth Contributions as Excess Deferrals in T.D. 9324 2007-22 I.R.B 1302:
https://www.irs.gov/irb/2007-22_IRB#TD-9324
The fact that it is first-out rather than pro-rata makes it easier to keep track of and to handle when you retire.
Thanks.
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