turbotax icon
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
turbotax icon
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
turbotax icon
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
turbotax icon
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Announcements
Close icon
Do you have a TurboTax Online account?

We'll help you get started or pick up where you left off.

don173
Returning Member

Trying to get clarification. I refinanced my home with the same Company I have my rental mortgage with. The rental is paid off. Can I use the interest paid on Schedule E?

My home was paid off and there was no mortgage prior to refinancing. There was no money given to me.
Connect with an expert
x
Do you have an Intuit account?

Do you have an Intuit account?

You'll need to sign in or create an account to connect with an expert.

1 Best answer

Accepted Solutions

Trying to get clarification. I refinanced my home with the same Company I have my rental mortgage with. The rental is paid off. Can I use the interest paid on Schedule E?

You can deduct the mortgage interest on Schedule A (if you itemize), subject to limitations.

 

You can deduct the interest on Schedule E if you used the proceeds of the loan to buy, build, or improve your rental (which, according to the facts you set forth, does not appear to be the case).

View solution in original post

10 Replies

Trying to get clarification. I refinanced my home with the same Company I have my rental mortgage with. The rental is paid off. Can I use the interest paid on Schedule E?

You can deduct the mortgage interest on Schedule A (if you itemize), subject to limitations.

 

You can deduct the interest on Schedule E if you used the proceeds of the loan to buy, build, or improve your rental (which, according to the facts you set forth, does not appear to be the case).

don173
Returning Member

Trying to get clarification. I refinanced my home with the same Company I have my rental mortgage with. The rental is paid off. Can I use the interest paid on Schedule E?

Thank you. This is what another response was and their answer.

 

I know this is a shot in the dark, but when you mention "tracing" I can show that the refinance money paid off the rental mortgage. The reason is, is because I refinanced with the same Mortgage Company that I had the rental Mortgage with. I did not receive any money from the refinance. Basically, I refinanced my home with NewRez and NewRez paid off the rental loan, which I said was financed through NewRez. I refinanced my primary residence to pay off the higher interest rental loan. I'm not sure if this makes a difference or not.

 

Here's the bottom line. The percentage of interest of the equal percentage of cash out money from the refinance of your primary residence that was used to pay off the mortgage on the rental property is just flat out not deductible anywhere on your federal return. Period.

Anonymous
Not applicable

Trying to get clarification. I refinanced my home with the same Company I have my rental mortgage with. The rental is paid off. Can I use the interest paid on Schedule E?

I'm not as sure

there is reg 1.163-10T

specifically subsection (o)(5) - you make an election to treat the refi as unsecured debt

(o) Secured debt -

(1) In general. For purposes of this section, the term “secured debt” means a debt that is on the security of any instrument (such as a mortgage, deed of trust, or land contract) -

(i) That makes the interest of the debtor in the qualified residence specific security for the payment of the debt,

(ii) Under which, in the event of default, the residence could be subjected to the satisfaction of the debt with the same priority as a mortgage or deed of trust in the jurisdiction in which the property is situated, and

(iii) That is recorded, where permitted, or is otherwise perfected in accordance with applicable State law.

A debt will not be considered to be secured by a qualified residence if it is secured solely by virtue of a lien upon the general assets of the taxpayer or by a security interest, such as a mechanic's lien or judgment lien, that attaches to the property without the consent of the debtor.
(2) Special rule for debt in certain States. Debt will not fail to be treated as secured solely because, under an applicable State or local homestead law or other debtor protection law in effect on August 16, 1986, the security interest is ineffective or the enforceability of the security interest is restricted.

(3) Times at which debt is treated as secured. For purposes of this section, a debt is treated as secured as of the date on which each of the requirements of paragraph (o)(1) of this section are satisfied, regardless of when amounts are actually borrowed with respect to the debt. For purposes of this paragraph (o)(3), if the instrument is recorded within a commercially reasonable time after the security interest is granted, the instrument will be treated as recorded on the date that the security interest was granted.

(4) Partially secured debt -

(i) In general. If the security interest is limited to a prescribed maximum amount or portion of the residence, and the average balance of the debt exceeds such amount or the value of such portion, such excess shall not be treated as secured debt for purposes of this section.

(ii) Example. T borrows $80,000 on January 1, 1991. T secures the debt with a principal residence. The security in the residence for the debt, however, is limited to $20,000. T pays $8,000 in interest on the debt in 1991 and the average balance of the debt in that year is $80,000. Because the average balance of the debt exceeds the maximum amount of the security interest, such excess is not treated as secured debt. Therefore, for purposes of applying the limitation on qualified residence interest, the average balance of the secured debt is $20,000 (the maximum amount of the security interest) and the interest paid or accrued on the secured debt is $2,000 (the total interest paid on the debt multiplied by the ratio of the average balance of the secured debt ($20,000) and the average balance of the total debt ($80,000)).

(5) Election to treat debt as not secured by a qualified residence -

(i) In general. For purposes of this section, a taxpayer may elect to treat any debt that is secured by a qualified residence as not secured by the qualified residence. An election made under this paragraph shall be effective for the taxable year for which the election is made and for all subsequent taxable years unless revoked with the consent of the Commissioner.

(ii) Example. T owns a principal residence with a fair market value of $75,000 and an adjusted purchase price of $40,000. In 1988, debt A, the proceeds of which were used to purchase the residence, has an average balance of $15,000. The proceeds of debt B, which is secured by a second mortgage on the property, are allocable to T's trade or business under § 1.163-8T and has an average balance of $25,000. In 1988, T incurs debt C, which is also secured by T's principal residence and which has an average balance in 1988 of $5,000. In the absence of an election to treat debt B as unsecured, the applicable debt limit for debt C in 1988 under paragraph (e) of this section would be zero dollars ($40,000−$15,000−$25,000) and none of the interest paid on debt C would be qualified residence interest. If, however, T makes or has previously made an election pursuant to paragraph (o)(5)(i) of this section to treat debt B as not secured by the residence, the applicable debt limit for debt C would be $25,000 ($40,000−$15,000), and all of the interest paid on debt C during the taxable year would be qualified residence interest. Since the proceeds of debt B are allocable to T's trade or business under § 1.163-8T, interest on debt B may be deductible under other sections of the Internal Revenue Code.

 

if the election is made you need to look at reg 1.163-8T to determine allocation and deductibility

specially subsection (e)(5) debt refinancings

 

(e) Debt refinancings -

(1) In general. To the extent proceeds of any debt (the “replacement debt”) are used to repay any portion of a debt, the replacement debt is allocated to the expenditures to which the repaid debt was allocated. The amount of replacement debt allocated to any such expenditure is equal to the amount of debt allocated to such expenditure that was repaid with proceeds of the replacement debt. To the extent proceeds of the replacement debt are used for expenditures other than repayment of a debt, the replacement debt is allocated to expenditures in accordance with the rules of this section.

(2) Example. The following example illustrates the application of this paragraph (e):

Example.
Taxpayer C borrows $100,000 (“Debt A”) on July 12, immediately deposits the debt proceeds in an account, and uses the proceeds to make the following expenditures on the following dates (note that the facts of this example are the same as the facts of example (1) in paragraph (d)(4) of this section):
August 31 - $40,000 passive activity expenditure #1.
October 5 - $20,000 passive activity expenditure #2.
December 24 - $40,000 personal expenditure #1.
On January 19 of the following year, C borrows $120,000 (“Debt B”) and uses $90,000 of the proceeds of repay $90,000 of Debt A (leaving $10,000 of Debt A outstanding). In addition, C uses $30,000 of the proceeds of Debt B to make a personal expenditure (“personal expenditure #2”). Debt B is allocated $40,000 to personal expenditure #1, $40,000 to passive activity expenditure #1, $10,000 to passive activity expenditure #2, and $30,000 to personal expenditure #2. Under paragraph (d)(1) of this section, Debt B will be treated as repaid in the following order: (1) amounts allocated to personal expenditure #1, (2) amounts allocated to personal expenditure #2, (3) amounts allocated to passive activity expenditure #1, and (4) amounts allocated to passive activity expenditure #2.

 

thus in your situation by making the election s some amount of the refi could be allocated to the rental and none would qualify as residential mortgage interest

 

the downside is if you sell the rental, then all of the interest from that point on would be personal.

 

SEE A TAX PRO TO RESEARCH YOUR SITUATION TO DETERMINE IF I'M CORRECT. ALSO, THE PORTION OF THE INTEREST THAT COULD BE DEDUCTED ON SCHEDULE E AND THAT THE PROPER ELECTION IS INCLUDED WITH YOUR RETURN.   THINGS ARE COMPLICATED BECAUSE THE REGS GO BACK TO  1988

Trying to get clarification. I refinanced my home with the same Company I have my rental mortgage with. The rental is paid off. Can I use the interest paid on Schedule E?


@Anonymous wrote:

thus in your situation by making the election s some amount of the refi could be allocated to the rental and none would qualify as residential mortgage interest


I suppose one could make that argument, except I remain unconvinced that a refi on a different property could be "allocated to the rental" when the proceeds of the refi were used solely to retire debt on the rental. 

Trying to get clarification. I refinanced my home with the same Company I have my rental mortgage with. The rental is paid off. Can I use the interest paid on Schedule E?

I'm not sure any of this is applicable.

 

Even though the mortgage was secured by the taxpayers personal home, NONE of it is deductible on schedule A.  Since the home was paid off, any new loan debt is equity debt, and not acquisition debt, and equity debt is no longer deductible on schedule A. 

 

As to the commercial property, suppose the taxpayer had an old 10% mortgage and found it desirable to refinance with an unsecured personal loan at 6%, or even a credit card with a promotional 1.9% APR.  Normally, that would be allowable as a business expense as long as the interest was directly traceable to the commercial property.  The loan does not have to be secured by the commercial property.  But there has to be a direct link between the interest and the property.  Once you start paying for other things from the personal loan or credit card, and muddy the waters, the business interest deduction is in jeopardy.  (We have also answered many times in the past that if a taxpayer borrows on commercial property A to buy commercial property B, the loan interest is an expense on property B, not property A, and the tracing rules must be followed.)

 

I don't see why that principle would not apply in this case.  The taxpayer borrowed money to pay off his commercial mortgage, and the new money is in effect a loan that is paying for his commercial property.  Does it matter if it is a credit card, a personal loan, or a mortgage on a different piece of property?

Trying to get clarification. I refinanced my home with the same Company I have my rental mortgage with. The rental is paid off. Can I use the interest paid on Schedule E?


@don173 wrote:
My home was paid off and there was no mortgage prior to refinancing. There was no money given to me.

Also, this is a duplicate discussion.  Please don't open new discussions trying to get the answer you want from a different group of experts. 

 

https://ttlc.intuit.com/community/investments-and-rental-properties/discussion/re-i-refinanced-my-ho...

 

 

Trying to get clarification. I refinanced my home with the same Company I have my rental mortgage with. The rental is paid off. Can I use the interest paid on Schedule E?


@Opus 17 wrote:

I don't see why that principle would not apply in this case. 


Actually, I do not either, after contemplating this scenario for a period of time. 

 

Provided the election is made to treat the debt as nonqualified (i.e., not secured by the principal residence) and is used to essentially replace (retire) the existing debt on the rental property, it is effectively a "proxy-type" refi of the mortgage on the rental property.

Trying to get clarification. I refinanced my home with the same Company I have my rental mortgage with. The rental is paid off. Can I use the interest paid on Schedule E?

Can you please tell me how the Election is made? what form do I do it on?  I Did a refi of my primary residence, and It shows money on my settlement sheet being used to pay off the mortgage of my rental house.  and need to make this election.  I assume the percentage of the mortgage used to pay off the rental house would be the percentage of the Interest I could use on the Schedule E

AmyC
Expert Alumni

Trying to get clarification. I refinanced my home with the same Company I have my rental mortgage with. The rental is paid off. Can I use the interest paid on Schedule E?

@brentAaron You deduct the mortgage interest on sch E that correlates to the rental property. You have paperwork showing the mortgage partially went to the rental. That portion is legitimate sch E interest. You must keep that paperwork showing the payment in your financial notebook, to have if you are ever asked about it.

 

I want to urge you to create a financial notebook that is kept separate from your tax return. Keep it safe and each year, add your year-end statements from all your financial accounts plus a copy of your W2’s, your schedule E  information, and proof of your basis in your various investments. You must keep tax records related to a rental house from the time you purchase until you sell plus 3 years. It is very easy to lose track of disallowed losses, mortgage paperwork, etc. Keeping it all together simplifies things.

 

**Say "Thanks" by clicking the thumb icon in a post
**Mark the post that answers your question by clicking on "Mark as Best Answer"

Trying to get clarification. I refinanced my home with the same Company I have my rental mortgage with. The rental is paid off. Can I use the interest paid on Schedule E?

Do I do it under other interest?  of list out the lender that sends out the 1098 for the primary residence?

 

12A or 12B

message box icon

Get more help

Ask questions and learn more about your taxes and finances.

Post your Question
Manage cookies