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DJG
Level 3

TurboTax Early Rounding Issues creating LARGE variances between TurboTax Produced Return and Brokerage 1099-B Data

Maybe we should all just email Intuit's CEO and call this problem directly to his attention:  [email address removed]

DJG
Level 3

TurboTax Early Rounding Issues creating LARGE variances between TurboTax Produced Return and Brokerage 1099-B Data

Maybe we should all just email Intuit's CEO and call this problem directly to his attention:  sasan_goodarzi at intuit.com

TurboTax Early Rounding Issues creating LARGE variances between TurboTax Produced Return and Brokerage 1099-B Data

Just installed the updates for my desktop Home and Business version (3/14/21) and the issue is still not fixed.  This is getting pretty tiresome.  I would very much like to be able to file my taxes without manually changing individual entries (so now they are incorrect) just to make the totals correct.  Where is an update on this "mid March" fix we heard about in an earlier post?

TurboTax Early Rounding Issues creating LARGE variances between TurboTax Produced Return and Brokerage 1099-B Data

I had started a thread about a different symptom of this new 2020 behavior:

https://ttlc.intuit.com/community/investments-and-rental-properties/discussion/re-imported-1099-b-cr...

 

Someone finally pointed me to this thread as the root cause.

 

Another impact of this change is that if you import transactions from a brokerage (or TXF file), for each transaction which lists amounts in cents (other than an even dollar amount), TurboTax creates a capital g/l adj form. This results in an enormous amount of clutter in the Forms list, and for my tax return bloats the printout of the "Recommended for your records" return from about 150 pages to over 3000 pages (with 2 pages for each capital g/l adj form, even though this form shows no adjustments.

 

Also, I did get some errors for < $0.50 wash sales, since it rounds them down to zero but then gets an error saying that a wash sale can't be for $0. Not clear what the best way to correct this is.

TurboTax Early Rounding Issues creating LARGE variances between TurboTax Produced Return and Brokerage 1099-B Data

I'm done with this nonsense--we can't even get an official response to this from TT.

Has anyone found competing tax software that can import directly from TD Ameritrade and produce accurate results?  If I can find one I'll never use TT again.

I trade actively and have a *lot* of wash sales.

DJG
Level 3

TurboTax Early Rounding Issues creating LARGE variances between TurboTax Produced Return and Brokerage 1099-B Data

Some good news!  Intuit's CEO actually responded to my email yesterday, within 10 minutes on a Sunday afternoon no less. He apologized and said that someone from the office of the president would reach out to me about this, and also that he had asked the head of Intuit's Consumer Group to have his team look into the rounding issue. He cc'ed the EVP and General Manager of the Consumer Group and also Intuit's Chief Customer Success Officer.

 

The proof will be in the pudding, of course, but I take this as a good indication that Intuit will finally be giving this issue its due attention and that someone will be getting back to us with.  I will update this thread with any further news.

 

In the meantime, I think appropriate to call off the dogs.  No need to keep bombarding the CEO's inbox now that we have their attention.   

TurboTax Early Rounding Issues creating LARGE variances between TurboTax Produced Return and Brokerage 1099-B Data

@DJG

 

Nice work. I think most of us on this thread have really enjoyed our experience with TurboTax for the last decade so it is not like we are looking for reasons to hate the product.  Maybe there is language from the IRS that requires Turbotax to do the rounding like this, but I have not seen it.  At the very least, an official response is merited to avoid confusion and give confidence to customers that what they submit to the IRS will be accepted. And ideally, if not required by the IRS then TurboTax should return to not rounding every number on Form 8949 (as they have done in the past) because TurboTax users would appreciate the precision.

TurboTax Early Rounding Issues creating LARGE variances between TurboTax Produced Return and Brokerage 1099-B Data

I'm running into the same issue as the other members on this thread. It appears that the rounding isn't just on the calculations on each individual transaction, but on each input (proceeds, basis, adjustments, etc.). This has resulted in a $10 error on approximately 100 transactions. While this may seem insignificant, it isn't to me. Please fix this.

 

I've been a loyal TT customer for about 20 years and this is the first time I've questioned that loyalty.

TurboTax Early Rounding Issues creating LARGE variances between TurboTax Produced Return and Brokerage 1099-B Data

@DJG Thank you for your initiative. I hope it comes of something.

 

TurboTax -- Having no official guidance and direction is ridiculous. We all sign our taxes attesting to their accuracy and this undocumented, nonsensical change undermines that. And the workarounds being discussed... yikes! The sole purpose of this software is to make our lives easier; massive failure this year. 

TurboTax Early Rounding Issues creating LARGE variances between TurboTax Produced Return and Brokerage 1099-B Data

@msinykin The fix for the wash sales was provided by some TT experts on another thread.  The slightly edited response is below.  It took me a minute to find the right line to edit because I needed to keep clicking through the pages for the relevant sale.

 

The error messaging you are seeing with regard to the wash sale entries is, in fact, a result of the automatic early rounding of the numbers, either imported or typed in by you.  If the wash sale adjustment is $0.49 or less, then it is automatically rounded to zero.  This type of rounding is allowed by the IRS.  Unfortunately, zero is not a valid value for this field, so you will get an error for any field with a $0 entry.

 

To resolve the issue, you can edit each individual transaction (although not from the screen in the review process) and delete the amount entered in the wash sale adjustment if it is $0.49 or less.  This will clear the error message(s).  

 

To do this, you will need to revisit the Form 1099-B entry interview.  Use the following steps:

  • Use the Search feature by clicking on Search in the top right corner
  • Type in 1099-B and hit enter
  • In the results window, click on Jump to 1099-B
  • Click Edit next to the issuer's name
  • Click Edit beside each transaction that contains a wash sale adjustment amount of $0.49 or less
  • In box 1g of your stock sale, you can make your change.
  • Delete the wash sale adjustment, leave it blank, and then click Done
  • Select Continue and answer any follow-up questions.

Hope this helps.

TurboTax Early Rounding Issues creating LARGE variances between TurboTax Produced Return and Brokerage 1099-B Data

Well done.   I hope a fix is coming soon.

 

TurboTax Early Rounding Issues creating LARGE variances between TurboTax Produced Return and Brokerage 1099-B Data

I'm glad I found this. My current accountant is somewhat out of his depth with the volume of trades I made last year and I was looking some software to handle it but it seems TT may not be match fit for 2020.

DJG
Level 3

TurboTax Early Rounding Issues creating LARGE variances between TurboTax Produced Return and Brokerage 1099-B Data

Here is the final, definitive response from TurboTax:

 

Form 8949 Rounding

The 2020 TurboTax software has been modified to conform to the IRS instructions/guidance and industry guidelines.  Publication 17, 2020 Tax Guide for Individuals (on P. 13) provides that:

Rounding off dollars. You can round off cents to whole dollars on your return and schedules. If you do round to whole dollars, you must round all amounts. To round, drop amounts under 50 cents and increase amounts from 50 to 99 cents to the next dollar. For example, $1.39 becomes $1 and $2.50 becomes $3.

If you have to add two or more amounts to figure the amount to enter on a line, include cents when adding the amounts and round off only the total.

The TurboTax program, beginning in 2020, now rounds the individual entries for sales price and cost basis and then computes the gain/loss based on these rounded numbers.  While we recognize that this may cause differences from the actual totals reported on Form 1099-B.  The rounding differences are well within the IRS built-in tolerances for rounding discrepancies.

When entering specific individual amounts from Form 1099-B such as Sales Proceeds and Cost Basis, the second paragraph above does not apply - as the entries are not considered by the IRS to be “two or more amounts to figure the amount to enter on a line”. 

As an alternative, TurboTax provides the ability to report Form 1099-B transactions as “summary transactions”.  If a detailed Form 8949 is required, then the TurboTax online program also has a new feature that will allow you to upload a pdf copy of Form 1099-B that will be transmitted to the IRS with the tax return (in many cases, this will not be required if you have only A or D transactions with no basis adjustments, which are not required to be reported on Form 8949).  TurboTax Desktop does not have the ability to include PDF documents in electronic filing.  If you choose to use the summary reporting method on TurboTax Desktop, you may need to mail the detailed information about your sales to the IRS using Form 8453.

Pub 17, 2020 Tax Guide for Individuals, along with the Instructions for Schedule D and Form 8949 are consistent with the above. 

 

FYI, I discussed this with the CPA who wrote it.  In summary, they made the switch to transaction-level rounding intentionally and do not view it as a bug, so they will not be updating their software to "fix" it.  The guy I spoke with left open the possibility that they'll revisit the issue for next year based on the feedback they're receiving, but he made even that sound pretty unlikely.  He said they made the change to be more consistent with IRS instructions about rounding and to be more in line with the "industry standard" approach.

 

Although this obviously wasn't the answer we were hoping for, I do feel satisfied that we now have the official, decisive response from Intuit on this question, so we can now all go about finishing our taxes.  I am satisfied that any discrepancy between our 1099-B and TT's calculated capital gain will be acceptable to the IRS and will not trigger an audit.  So really it's up to each of us whether you want to file with the discrepancy or use the workaround of reporting summary transactions and then mailing your 1099-B to the IRS w/form 8453.  Personally, I will be using the workaround because all the rounding results in a capital gain calculation that is significantly higher than my actual capital gain.  If the discrepancy were in my favor, I'd probably just go along with it.

 

Of course, this whole thing does beg the Q of why would I ever pay for TT Premier again?  But that's neither here nor there.

DJG
Level 3

TurboTax Early Rounding Issues creating LARGE variances between TurboTax Produced Return and Brokerage 1099-B Data

Here is the final, definitive response from TurboTax:

 

Form 8949 Rounding

The 2020 TurboTax software has been modified to conform to the IRS instructions/guidance and industry guidelines.  Publication 17, 2020 Tax Guide for Individuals (on P. 13) provides that:

Rounding off dollars. You can round off cents to whole dollars on your return and schedules. If you do round to whole dollars, you must round all amounts. To round, drop amounts under 50 cents and increase amounts from 50 to 99 cents to the next dollar. For example, $1.39 becomes $1 and $2.50 becomes $3.

If you have to add two or more amounts to figure the amount to enter on a line, include cents when adding the amounts and round off only the total.

The TurboTax program, beginning in 2020, now rounds the individual entries for sales price and cost basis and then computes the gain/loss based on these rounded numbers.  While we recognize that this may cause differences from the actual totals reported on Form 1099-B.  The rounding differences are well within the IRS built-in tolerances for rounding discrepancies.

When entering specific individual amounts from Form 1099-B such as Sales Proceeds and Cost Basis, the second paragraph above does not apply - as the entries are not considered by the IRS to be “two or more amounts to figure the amount to enter on a line”. 

As an alternative, TurboTax provides the ability to report Form 1099-B transactions as “summary transactions”.  If a detailed Form 8949 is required, then the TurboTax online program also has a new feature that will allow you to upload a pdf copy of Form 1099-B that will be transmitted to the IRS with the tax return (in many cases, this will not be required if you have only A or D transactions with no basis adjustments, which are not required to be reported on Form 8949).  TurboTax Desktop does not have the ability to include PDF documents in electronic filing.  If you choose to use the summary reporting method on TurboTax Desktop, you may need to mail the detailed information about your sales to the IRS using Form 8453.

Pub 17, 2020 Tax Guide for Individuals, along with the Instructions for Schedule D and Form 8949 are consistent with the above. 

 

FYI, I discussed this with the CPA who wrote it.  In summary, they made the switch to transaction-level rounding intentionally and do not view it as a bug, so they will not be updating their software to "fix" it.  The guy I spoke with left open the possibility that they'll revisit the issue for next year based on the feedback they're receiving, but he made even that sound pretty unlikely.  He said they made the change to be more consistent with IRS instructions about rounding and to be more in line with the "industry standard" approach.

 

Although this obviously wasn't the answer we were hoping for, I do feel satisfied that we now have the official, decisive response from Intuit on this question, so we can now all go about finishing our taxes.  I am satisfied that any discrepancy between our 1099-B and TT's calculated capital gain will be acceptable to the IRS and will not trigger an audit.  So really it's up to each of us whether you want to file with the discrepancy or use the workaround of reporting summary transactions and then mailing your 1099-B to the IRS w/form 8453.  Personally, I will be using the workaround because all the rounding results in a capital gain calculation that is significantly higher than my actual capital gain.  If the discrepancy were in my favor, I'd probably just go along with it.

 

Of course, this whole thing does beg the Q of why would I ever pay for TT Premier again?  But that's neither here nor there.

TurboTax Early Rounding Issues creating LARGE variances between TurboTax Produced Return and Brokerage 1099-B Data

@DJG 

 

Thanks for the detailed reply.   The only issue I see, is that if you have wash sales, you have to detail out the 8949 and can no longer use the mail-in or the upload attachment option.  In this case you are forced to pay more taxes (if rounding not in your favor) because TT changed their software.

 

Sadly, sounds like TT isn't going to help their customers this year by providing capable software to process the transactions, which is unfortunate.

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