After signed Form 8453-FE attached, the signed version doesn't show in the pdf for the E-file

[stuckinnova]

I'm sorry that I wasn't more specific early as my comments were only related to the TT Business & Trust program. I'm using that program to create a 1041 package for a Irrevocable Trust that is a separate legal entity (it's own EIN, non-grantor trust). I believe that we agree that a Form 8453-FE is required for that type (Fiduciary) of 1041 package submittal. So, can you readdress my original comments/concerns, please? Why doesn't the user have access to the actual 1041 package submitted to the IRS which includes the signed version of the Form 8453-FE and be available to be included in the Fiduciary's permanent records?

Thanks, Don

[Anonymous_]

Again, the signed form is saved on your computer (typically as a PDF), uploaded to the program, and then attached and e-filed along with the rest of the return.

Frankly, I'm not sure where the confusion lies since the form cannot possible be signed within the program itself. Rather, it must be printed out, signed, and then scanned and saved to a folder on the user's computer. As a result, the user will always have access to the form unless the user deletes it.

[stuckinnova]

tagteam,

There are many posts that identify the issue with an eFiled 1041 Package (supposedly the one sent to the IRS). The concern is that the submitted Package seems to contain an unsigned Form 8453-FE and not the signed Form 8453-FE. Since the program requires the users to create a signed Form 8453-FE and then upload it to the program, one expects that the signed form to be included in the Package as a replacement for the unsigned form. This is common practice in software applications. In any case, after the completed 1041 Package is eFiled, the program offers the option of printing out or saving a copy of the eFiled 1041 Package for the user's permanent records (of what was provided to the IRS). Note that this offer by the program specifically lists the Form 8453-FE as being part of the submitted package to the IRS.  However, when one inspects what is offered by the program, the only Form 8453-FE **in the 'submitted' package** is the unsigned version of that Form.  Based on what is provided to the user for printout/saving, there is no reason to believe that the signed Form 8453-FE has been sent to the IRS as the offered printout/save package of what was submitted is silent regarding any attachment(s) or concerning the signed version of the Form 8453-FE. It should be noted that if there has been an attachment to the 1041 Package submittal (of a signed Form 8453-FE) does this mean that there are 2 such Form 8453-FE, one unsigned in the body of the package and one signed and attached to the package, that are submitted to the IRS in the package?

The confusion that you alluded to is not related to the availability of a saved signed Form 8453-FE to the program user after saving that signed form to his local computer. Rather, the confusion is: (1) why a1041 Package offered to be saved for our permanent records (and that was supposed to be the same as submitted to the IRS) instead only contains an unsigned Form 8453-FE. If the program simply: (1) replaced the unsigned Form 8453-FE with the signed Form 8453-FE in the 1041 Package being submitted to the IRS; OR (2) the offered 'as submitted' 1041 Package to be retained for permanent record included any/all attachments, then the issue is resolved. Again, your description of how the 1041 Package submittal is supposed to work would indicate that the IRS will receive 2 Form 8453-FEs.

I hope that this clarifies what many of us perceive to be a serious shortcoming in the TT Business program, especially for Fiduciary users. 

[Anonymous_]

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@stuckinnova wrote:

I hope that this clarifies what many of us perceive to be a serious shortcoming in the TT Business program, especially for Fiduciary users. 

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You may not be aware that the program can be used to prepare business returns (corporations, partnerships/LLCs) as well as fiduciary returns and those returns also require 8453 variants in order to be e-filed (e.g., 8453-PE, 8453-CORP).

You may also not be aware of the purpose of the form, which is nothing more than to authorize an ERO (in this case, Intuit/TurboTax) to e-file the return on your behalf. If you are printing and mailing a 1041, for example, there is no need for an 8453-FE.

[I suppose my point in the last paragraph is simply that if you are ever questioned as to whether a 1041 was filed by the IRS, you're not going to be able to whip out the 8453-FE you signed as proof that the return was filed, which makes the signed copy pretty much irrelevant]

[stuckinnova]

tagteam wrote: 

You may also not be aware of the purpose of the form, which is nothing more than to authorize an ERO (in this case, Intuit/TurboTax) to e-file the return on your behalf. If you are printing and mailing a 1041, for example, there is no need for an 8453-FE.

Your information is incorrect. Form 8453-FE is required for Fiduciary  filed 1041 Returns for Trusts. In the Part II section, it "...authorizes the IRS and its designate Financial Agent to initiate an ACH electronic funds withdrawal(direct debit) entry to the financial institution account indicated in the tax preparation software..."

The Trust Fiduciary must sign the Form 8453-FE as part of the eFiled 1041 Package submittal. It should be noted that the form specifically requires that it be "...File electronically WITH the estate's or trust's return. Do not file paper copies..."

[Anonymous_]

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@stuckinnova wrote:

....It should be noted that the form specifically requires that it be "...File electronically WITH the estate's or trust's return. Do not file paper copies..."

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That was sort of my point; it is not you, the fiduciary, who files it; the ERO files it on your behalf. Without the signature of the ERO (see the bottom of the form), you've got nothing.

[stuckinnova]

Your information is incorrect. Form 8453-FE is required for Fiduciary  filed 1041 Returns for Trusts. In the Part II section, it "...authorizes the IRS and its designate Financial Agent to initiate an ACH electronic funds withdrawal(direct debit) entry to the financial institution account indicated in the tax preparation software..."

Please read the Form 8453-FE requirements printed in the instructions and directly on the form. The key purpose for this form is to authorize the collection of the tax due and must be signed by the Fiduciary in the indicated Part II section. If unsigned then the IRS can't collect and won't be happy!

[Anonymous_]

You're missing the point, which revolves around the reason the signed form is not included in the PDF with the rest of the return.

Note that the entire purpose of the form is to authorize an ERO to e-file the return and, if appropriate, to authorize the Treasury to initiate an ACH funds withdrawal from the financial institution account indicated in the tax preparation software for payment of the estate’s or trust’s taxes.

Again, the form is relatively useless to the filer (TurboTax customer) without the signature of the ERO (Intuit) and I believe your initial complaint was that the signed form was not included in the list of forms nor the PDF that is saved with all of the other forms, schedules, and worksheets.

[RB287a]

Thanks to the OP, BobS21 for posting this and thanks to tagteam for the replies letting us know the details when TT leaves us wondering. This forum really helps cover for many issues of TT. My TT for Business efile screen didn't specify to look in Tools menu it just said
-You currently have form 8453 attached to your return. To view this attachment select Attachments in the upper right of your screen-
Leaving me a bit confused, but looking now in (upper Left) Tools->Attachments shows my attached sign sheet (by filename) and it says  -it will be sent out with your tax return-

That would apply to efiling, since the PDF print doesn't include the signature copy we'd have to be manually sign it on a mailed return. Thanks for this thread it helped me.

[yahu2us]

I have the same issue/question, not only with Form 8453, but also with Form 2553. Both required my signature. Additionally, in my case, there is an attachment to Form 2553 that I must submit to IRS together with the Form 2553.

I followed TurboTax instructions to produce PDF files of F8453 and F2553 with signatures, including the attachment to F2553, and uploaded them according to the instructions. These PDF files did show up in the list of TurboTax's "Attachments".

The problem causing my(our) concerns is that, before or after e-filing, the printout from TurboxTax does not show the signed F8453, signed F2553, and my attachment to F2553.

Yes, I still have a copy of them in my hard drive. I can easily open, view, and print them out. That is not the issue. The issue is, after e-filing, I am not sure whether TurboTax has sent IRS the signed copies and the extra attachment or not.

Apparently some people who replied earlier in this thread missed the point. They did not get what my (our) issues are.

[DianeW777]

Any forms filed with your tax return should be kept in the tax file in the business records. As long as you have the forms you uploaded that's what's important. You can always contact the IRS or create a business account that allows access to view the business information. The business transcripts may possibly show these forms on file. 

• IRS Business Tax Account

An authorized person for the company can also call at some point to confirm the forms are part of the return that was e-filed.  TurboTax is required to meet certain IRS requirements to be allowed to e-file returns.

• IRS Telephone Assistance for Business Customers

@yahu2us