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Wash Sales Taxable Account and IRA

If a day trader actively trades a stock nearly every day for a year -- obviously generating losses as well as gains -- and does not wait 31 days to re-buy after a loss, what happens to the losses if he/she purchases the same stock in an IRA? Are all losses for the whole year erased per Rev Ruling 2008?

 

For example, say a trader starts trading XYZ on Jan 1 and trades it everyday through December 31. In the process, he/she accumulates $1 million in gains and $800,000 in losses (with plenty of wash sales along the way). On December 31, he/she buys just 10 shares of XYZ in an IRA. Are all the losses ($800,000) erased b/c 31 days never elapsed on each loss?

 

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14 Replies

Wash Sales Taxable Account and IRA

have you made the 475(f) election?  if so you are not subject to wash sales rules.

 

if you sell 10 shares of XYZ at a loss, properly taking into a/c prior wash sales within the 31 days of buying 10 shares of XYZ in the IRA a/c the wash sale rule will apply you will lose the benefit of the loss.

 

 

example: 12/2 buy 10 shares of XYZ for  $1,000. this is within 31 days of selling 10 shares of XYZ at a loss. thus the wash sale rule applies. if the loss was $99,000, your new basis is $100,000. you sell these shares on 12/3 for $1,000. now you have a $99,000 loss. on 12/31 you buy 10 shares of XYZ in your IRA a/c. this also invokes the wash sale rules. this results in a $99,000 wash sale loss in your taxable a/c. because the shares purchased were in your IRA there is no adjustment to those IRA shares and the $99,000 wash sale loss disappears.

 

 

The wash sale rule says you lose your deduction for stock sold at a loss if you buy identical shares (note that purchase quantity creating the wash sale must also be equal to the number of shares sold at a loss - buy 100 shares when 10 shares are sold at a loss only 10 shares of the purchase get their basis adjusted) within 30 days before or after the sale. There’s ample authority for the notion that a purchase of replacement shares by a related person will prevent you from deducting a loss.  The IRA is, of course, a related “person.”  to specifically clarify the situation the IRS published Rev. Rul. 2008-5 that lays down the law: you lose your capital loss deduction. Note that if you have a spouse and you sell shares of XYZ at a loss in your investment a/c and your spouse buys XYZ in their IRA a/c within the 31 day period, the wash sales rules apply

The ruling specifies, in addition, that you do not obtain an adjustment to the basis of your traditional or Roth IRA when the rule applies. That means the result is worse than a normal wash sale, because the loss is permanently disallowed rather than being added to the basis of the replacement shares.

This rule will continue to be difficult for the IRS to enforce. Purchases and sales occurring within an IRA are not reported on Form 1099-B and will not show up in your individual brokerage account statement. Yet the ugly consequence — permanent disallowance of the deduction — may serve as a deterrent even for people who might otherwise be inclined to play the audit lottery. in the worst-case scenario, if caught, prosecution for tax evasion is possible. 

 

 

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/rr-08-05.pdf 

Wash Sales Taxable Account and IRA

 

 

When the triggering buy transaction is fewer in number than the shares on which you have a loss, then the wash sale loss on  that smaller number of shares is deferred onto the triggering shares.

Triggering shares in an IRA are never reported on your tax return, so that's that.

 

I don't think your broker will report this.

If the IRA is with a different broker, the first broker will definitely not observe any wash sale.

 

If you have built up a very big wash sale loss, you really want to stop trading that stock 33 days before the end of the year.

Wash Sales Taxable Account and IRA

@Mike9241 Thanks much for the exceptional answer.

 

note that purchase quantity creating the wash sale must also be equal to the number of shares sold at a loss - buy 100 shares when 10 shares are sold at a loss only 10 shares of the purchase get their basis adjusted”

 

^Does this mean that if one traded 10x more shares in the taxable account than in the IRA, he/she would only be subject to 1/10 the “loss disappearance” after purchasing in the IRA? In this scenario, again, no 31 day period taken off from trading the symbol in the taxable account.

 

Wash Sales Taxable Account and IRA

Hey @fanfare ,

Thanks for the answer! Same question I just posed to Mike below RE: shares matching up then. Is the IRA purchase loss of benefit capped at the amount of shares purchased in the IRA? If you trade 10x more shares in the taxable account, is the wash sale that is gone forever only 1/10 the cumulative loss (should no gap period occur throughout the year).

Wash Sales Taxable Account and IRA

generally, wash sales loss only applies to the same number purchased. sell 100 at a loss and purchase 10, then only a portion of the loss will be added to the shares purchased but it may or may not be 1/10 the loss.  say you use FIFO for the method determining which shares are sold.  so say you purchase 10 shares for $10 to which a wash sale on 10 shares of say $90 is added.  basis of those 10 shares is now $100. also say later you purchased 90 shares for $180 to which a wash sale on 90 shares of $135 is added. basis of those 90 shares is now $315

the total basis for the 100 shares is now $415.

say you sell the 100 shares for $50  loss is $365 (10 shares loss $95  $5 - $100 and 90 shares $270 $45 - $315). say you buy 50 shares within 31 days creating another wash sale but only on 50 shares. if your method of accounting is FIFO the wash sale loss to add is

$95 for 10 shares

and $120 for 40 shares ($270 * (50 -10)/90  

so at this point, you have an allowable loss of $150  ($270 * 50/90)

which is the same as the loss of $365 less the wash sales amounts of $95 and $120 

 

if you were using LIFO the wash sale amount would be $270 * 50/90 =$150

 

as you can see multiple trades can create a huge problem in calculating and reporting wash sales especially when multiple trades are made the same day and in multiple accounts. this is why many day traders, who qualify, make the mark to market election  IRC 475 (f). you lose capital gain treatment but the wash sale rules do not apply to those who properly make the election. 

 

here's info on the election

Traders
Special rules apply if you're a trader in securities, in the business of buying and selling securities for your own account. The law considers this to be a business, even though a trader doesn't maintain an inventory and doesn't have customers. To be engaged in business as a trader in securities, you must meet all of the following conditions:
You must seek to profit from daily market movements in the prices of securities and not from dividends, interest, or capital appreciation;
Your activity must be substantial; and
You must carry on the activity with continuity and regularity.
The following facts and circumstances should be considered in determining if your activity is a securities trading business:
Typical holding periods for securities bought and sold;
The frequency and dollar amount of your trades during the year;
The extent to which you pursue the activity to produce income for a livelihood; and
The amount of time you devote to the activity.
If the nature of your trading activities doesn't qualify as a business, you're considered an investor and not a trader. It doesn't matter whether you call yourself a trader or a day trader, you're an investor. A taxpayer may be a trader in some securities and may hold other securities for investment. The special rules for traders don't apply to those securities held for investment. A trader must keep detailed records to distinguish the securities held for investment from the securities in the trading business. The securities held for investment must be identified as such in the trader's records on the day he or she acquires them (for example, by holding them in a separate brokerage account).
Traders report their business expenses on Schedule C (Form 1040 or 1040-SR), Profit or Loss From Business (Sole Proprietorship) PDF. Commissions and other costs of acquiring or disposing of securities aren't deductible but must be used to figure gain or loss upon disposition of the securities. See Topic No. 703, Basis of Assets. Gains and losses from selling securities from being a trader aren't subject to self-employment tax.
The Mark-to-Market Election
Traders can choose to use the mark-to-market rules, investors can't. If a trader doesn't make a valid mark-to-market election under section 475(f), then he or she must treat the gains and losses from sales of securities as capital gains and losses and report the sales on Schedule D (Form 1040 or 1040-SR), Capital Gains and Losses and on Form 8949, Sales and Other Dispositions of Capital Assets as appropriate. When reporting on Schedule D, both the limitations on capital losses and the wash sales rules continue to apply. However, if a trader makes a timely mark-to-market election, then he or she can treat the gains and losses from sales of securities as ordinary gains and losses (except for securities held for investment - see above) that must be reported on Part II of Form 4797, Sales of Business Property.  Neither the limitations on capital losses nor the wash sale rules apply to traders using the mark-to-market method of accounting.
A trader must make the mark-to-market election by the original due date (not including extensions) of the tax return for the year prior to the year for which the election becomes effective. You can make the election by attaching a statement either to your income tax return if filed without an extension or to a request for an extension of time to file your return. The statement should include the following information:
That you're making an election under section 475(f);
The first tax year for which the election is effective (that is, the tax year for which a timely election is being made); and
The trade or business for which you're making the election.
Refer to the Instructions for Schedule D (Form 1040 or 1040-SR), Capital Gains and Losses for more information on how to make the mark-to-market election. It's important to note that in general, late section 475(f) elections aren't allowed.
After making the election to change to the mark-to-market method of accounting, you must change your method of accounting for securities under Revenue Procedure 2019-43, Section 24.01. In addition to making the election, you'll also be required to file a Form 3115, Application for Change in Accounting Method. Publication 550 describes the procedures for making an election under the section called "Special Rules for Traders in Securities." Non-filing of the Form 3115 mentioned above won't invalidate a timely and valid election.
If you've made a valid election under section 475(f), the only way to stop using mark-to-market accounting for securities is to file an automatic request for revocation under Revenue Procedure 2019-43, Section 24.02. Under that revenue procedure, the request for revocation must be filed by the original due date of the return (without regard to extensions) for the taxable year preceding the year of change (the year of change is the first taxable year the revocation is to be effective). This revocation notification statement must be attached to either that return or if applicable, to a request for an extension of time to file that return. Late revocations won't generally be allowed except in unusual and compelling circumstances
if you make the 475(f) election for 2022 it has to be filed with your timely 2021 return or extension. This requires paper filing. 


 

 

 

 

 

 

Wash Sales Taxable Account and IRA

If you sold 100 shares, it could be, 

a) your triggering buy was before you sold,

b) your triggering buy was after you sold, 

c) a combination of a) and b)

 

Consider  you bought 5 shares on the 11th day before selling and another 5 shares on the 10th day before selling.

If you buy 10 shares within the time window, then the loss disallowed will be on 10 shares SOLD.

 

Stock is sold FIFO, so that tells you which 10 shares will have their loss disallowed.

The loss is assigned to the earliest shares BOUGHT, in order until all are assigned.

 

See IRS Pub 550 for the rules, where even the examples are confusing.

Wash Sales Taxable Account and IRA

Consider you bought another 12 shares five days after selling.

Now you have a disallowed loss on 22 shares.

The loss on 12 more shares is assigned to the shares you bought on the 5th day.

Wash Sales Taxable Account and IRA

@fanfare This is very good info, thank you. Last follow up question:

 

I was just curious if, for example, you bought 100,000 shares of a stock in a taxable account throughout the year and 500 shares of a stock in a retirement account: 

 

1. Is the MOST that could be washed out from the retirement activity 500 shares -- and therefore 500 x cost basis of select shares of the 100,000 - even if say 60,000 of the taxable shares were traded within 31 days of the retirement account activity? Or would all the losses associated with the 60,000 be washed out since it took place within 31 days of the purchase of the 500 in the retirement account?

Wash Sales Taxable Account and IRA

@Mike9241 Posed this question below. Interested in your input too:

 

I was just curious if, for example, you bought 100,000 shares of a stock in a taxable account throughout the year and 500 shares of a stock in a retirement account: 

 

1. Is the MOST that could be washed out from the retirement activity 500 shares -- and therefore 500 x cost basis of select shares of the 100,000 - even if say 60,000 of the taxable shares were traded within 31 days of the retirement account activity? Or would all the losses associated with the 60,000 be washed out since it took place within 31 days of the purchase of the 500 in the retirement account?

Wash Sales Taxable Account and IRA

@cp44444 

I just answered that question for you, twice.

I don't want to give it  a third try.

You might want to reread my  answers above.

Wash Sales Taxable Account and IRA

 

@cp44444 

Your repeated frequent trades can cause triggering BUY transactions to turn into wash sales losses also. with deferred losses accumulating and carried forward.

If you got yourself into that situation, I can see why you would be concerned.

 

If it's not clear on your monthly statements, your broker can tell you the cost basis of your holdings on the date of the IRA purchase.

 

 

Wash Sales Taxable Account and IRA

@cp44444 

 

Again, 

you have to STOP TRADING that stock NOW so your wash sales can unwind by Dec 31.

 I'm not sure of the rule here but to be safe close out on Dec 29 or Dec 28. Stocks settle in two business days.

Wash Sales Taxable Account and IRA

you have to go through each trade to see the quantity affected by the rules. there is no easy answer

 

say on Feb 15 you buy 10 shares of X in your IRA. on Feb 28 you sell 100 shares at a loss in your investment a/c. on Mar 10 you buy 25 shares in your investment a/c and 25 shares in your IRA. 

you now have a wash sale on 60 shares the loss that would have been allocated to the 35 shares purchased in the IRA is lost forever. while the 25 shares purchased in your investment a/c get a portion of the wash sale loss added to what was paid. 

 

or say on 10/15 you sell 100 shares at a loss in your investment a/c. the day after and for the next 9 trading days you purchase 10 shares a day in your investment a/c. since all the purchases occurred within the 31 day period the entire loss on the 10/15 sale is a wash sale. so each of the 10 purchases gets a portion of the wash sale added to their basis

 

if you use an American broker, it is required to determine the reporting for the wash sales.  with foreign brokers you are on your own. 

 

 

 

Wash Sales Taxable Account and IRA

"it is required to determine the reporting for the wash sales.  "

 

within your account the broker will do the arithmetic. 

I really doubt the sale around the time of the IRA purchase will actually show up on your final 1099-B as a wash sale.

But what do I know I could be wrong.

I wouldn't ask the broker about it -- let sleeping dogs lie.

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