When will form 8915-E be update and available for 2021 tax year?

[zarms]

If you're using the online tool, you can save and walk away at anytime.  That's where I am while I wait for the 8915-F to be available and integrated.

After reading the IRS draft pubs and going through the worksheets, it looks like there's no impact to my situation.  I opted to have my emergency distribution distributed over three years but the worksheets lead me to a zero amount of additional income accounted to the 2021 tax year.

Since this doesn't change my refund, I was tempted to file BUT when it came time to check the box stipulating that the forms are 'correct, complete, etc.', I decided to wait.  

It would be nice if Intuit put a hold on being able to file if the situation applies.  The main reason I opted not to file is because I didn't want to have to file amended federal and state returns and pay all the fees associated.

Can anybody point me in a different direction?  Am I being overly cautious?  It is the IRS, so I'm content to err on the side of no red flags and less contact.

[jashreed]

I was under the impression to begin with that I could just use the E form because I didn’t take additional money out of a 401K.  After reading more into it it looks like to me that form F does need to be used as I am reporting 1/3 of the income each year.  This was very confusing to me.  
I may still have it wrong but Lord I just hope that it’s ready soon. 

I would not file until this form is available.  If you do happen to have to use it, it sounds like the software will do it for you once you go back to revisit the 1099R part. 

best to wait 

[zarms]

I am not a tax pro so this was confusing for me, too.

I'm taking your counsel to wait.  The annoyance of waiting will most certainly be less than the pain and turmoil of amended returns.  I'd like to get my money back, but I'd rather get all of it back than have a ton of fees or fines.

If any Intuit folks are following this:  Really seems like there should be a warning or hold on filing if it is known that info is missing.  A chill 'just check back later you know like if you think you should man or whatever it's cool'  isn't the kind of clarity and guidance I've come to trust TurboTax to provide.  

[jashreed]

Yes.  I agree.  It should at least show up a red flag saying to revisit it once you are checking for errors. 

[jmarcipratt]

The form was published on the IRS site 2/3/2022. How long does it take to become available on TurboTax? 

[giantberger]

The draft version of IRS Form 8915-F states:

When Should I Not Use a Form 8915-F?

Reporting coronavirus-related and other distributions for qualified 2020 disasters made or received in 2020. This form replaces Form 8915-E for tax years beginning after 2020. Do not use a Form 8915-F to report qualified 2020 disaster distributions made in 2020 or qualified distributions received in 2020 for qualified 2020 disasters.

You will still use 2020 Form 8915-E to report coronavirus-related and other qualified disaster distributions made in 2020 and to report qualified distributions received in 2020 for qualified 2020 disasters.

That is verbatim from the draft Form 8915-F. So it seems erroneous that people who took out coronavirus-related withdrawals from their 401(k) in 2020 need to file a Form 8915-F, based on the information in the draft. 

If there is an error in the draft, or some other information that a tax expert can add, that contradicts the statement in the IRS draft of Form 8915-F above -- i.e., that 2020 401(k) distributions due to COVID should continue to be reported via 8915-E -- please provide evidence to back that up, because the IRS seems to be saying something different. The draft also says to use the 2020 Form 8915-E ... Does that mean there won't be a 2021 version of the form?

Or -- and I'm just making a leap here -- if splitting the taxes over 3 years is considered "taking distributions" in 2021 and 2022 (as well as 2020), could someone clarify that's the case? Because that changes the entire definition of the above excerpt.

I also have the question mentioned previously about the 1099-R. Do 401(k) providers generally send out another 1099-R for subsequent years if you're paying the taxes over 3 years, or would you simply include the 2020 1099-R received from the financial institution?

Thanks,

Chris

[tonyteshera · Accepted solution]

Hi Chris,

This is part of what was confusing me also. I think the key is that we're not reporting distributions for 2020. We already did that when we filed our 2020 tax returns. If you were reporting those distributions for the first time now (not sure why?), then you'd use 8915-E. But we already reported the distribution... so that's done, and therefore we're done with 8915-E. Now we just need to pay the third of the taxes owed for the 2nd and 3rd years, and the finalized form 8915-F has a very specific place for you to do that for the distribution we took in 2020.

Tony

[giantberger]

Ah, so what you're saying is that essentially most folks are not reporting ANY distribution (for the first time) from 2020 for their 2021 tax return ... Most are just reporting the fact that they previously took out a distribution in 2020 (which they already reported and paid the 1st year of taxes on via 8915-E) and now need to cover the 2nd and 3rd years of taxes (in 2021 and 2022 tax years, respectively, via 8915-F).

That also completely changes the interpretation of that passage in the draft of form 8915-F. Man, the IRS sure can be confusing (said everyone always). 

Any other insight or confirmation of all this would be appreciated. 

Thanks,

Chris

[tonyteshera]

Yeah, that's my interpretation. Wish I could confirm, but I'm not an expert. But the final 8915-F does have a nice flow chart and an explicit place for reporting this. See the final here: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8915f.pdf. Specifically, it's going to be entered on line 23. If you look at the worksheet in the instructions, that's what ends up being put there. 

As for the 1099-R, in my case when I took money out of my pension, the administrator didn't even ask or know I was doing a 3-year taxation. I think only me, TurboTax and the IRS knows that. So I wouldn't expect another 1099-R. But, I also wouldn't expect one if there truly is no "distribution" event in 2021 as I suspect is the case.

The IRS couldn't possibly have made this more confusing. Our tax code and the documentation of it is so bad.

Tony

[giantberger]

OK, yeah, looking at the flow chart in 2021 Form 8915-F ... It's much clearer. Hopefully this exchange also helps some other confused folks! Thanks, Tony.

-Chris

[zarms]

Are you folks seeing from the flow chart that there ends up being no liability this year?  I went through it a few times and ended up with a negative number on Line 26 of the form which leads to a zero entry in Box 4b of the 1040.  I could be misreading the worksheets but I don't think I am.

I wish there was a way to fast forward and take the remaining income liability this year and be done with this instead of having to do this again next year (and possibly the following).

Thoughts?

[tonyteshera]

I'm no expert, but it seems the only way you can have that is if you made repayments and you entered those on Line 25? Sounds like a repayment is when you took money out but put it back in. I'm betting most of us didn't do that, but if you did, then you wouldn't owe taxes I guess.

[zarms]

Your logic makes perfect sense, and the result from the worksheets does not make sense.   It's entirely possible I made a math error or read it too quickly, but it could also be an error in the draft instructions.  

Best to sit tight until TT has it integrated methinks.

[fanfare]

I don't know why you would be confused.

If you divided by 3.0 that one third amount will be an addition on top of any other amounts on Form 1040 Line 4b or 5b depending on IRA or 401k.

Pretty simple.

[crfj1976]

The irs website says its using the same form as it did in 2021. I'm stuck filling my taxes here, and I'm sure I'm not alone. This is the second year in a row I've had to wait months to file my taxes. I've used turbotax to file for the last 8 years. People I work with that took the same 401k withdrawal are already filing with other tax programs. I'd rather get this done than have to wait until April to do it. Tax time is stressful for most of us and we use turbotax because it's fast, easy, and reliable. This just ups the stress having to wait until almost deadline to file.