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jeroenf
Returning Member

LLC Guaranteed Payment and Retirement Contribution

I'm using TT Business.
My multi-member LLC has a 401k plan to which I will individually contribute as a partner. And the LLC will make a matching contribution.
In the Federal Taxes -> Deductions -> Compensation and Benefits section, there is the Member Retirement Contributions item. Is this for the LLC (=employer) matching contribution? And if so, should the Guaranteed Payments question above it include this matching 401k contribution or is it then counted twice as a Guaranteed Payment?
In the next section, Balance Sheet, the Income Reconciliation question appears to add the GP and the Retirement Contribution together as expenses that reduce the net income of the LLC. This would suggest that the GP entry under Compensation and Benefits should not include the Retirement Contribution.
I'm confused...

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11 Replies

LLC Guaranteed Payment and Retirement Contribution

Unless this corporation is on a fiscal tax year then the return is very late and the penalties have been accruing from last March ... so if you do not know what you are doing I highly recommend you seek local professional assistance to get this done correctly AND get educated so you can do this yourself in the future. 

 

jeroenf
Returning Member

LLC Guaranteed Payment and Retirement Contribution

No, CY. But this is for 2021, so due on March 15, 2022. 

In previous years returns were straightforward (no matching contributions), so I could do it myself, using TT. 

To see how that will turn out this year, I already purchased TurboTax Business 2021 and started filling the data that's available so far to see if I would run into issues. 

 

LLC Guaranteed Payment and Retirement Contribution

Assistance for a Business return is scarce from TT support  so someone may make a post later but you are really on your own to find the answer you seek. 

LLC Guaranteed Payment and Retirement Contribution

Are you filing a Partnership return or a Corp ( S OR C ?)  

jeroenf
Returning Member

LLC Guaranteed Payment and Retirement Contribution

Partnership (S).

LLC Guaranteed Payment and Retirement Contribution

the match is not reported on page 1 of form 1065 neither guaranteed payments (those would be income on partner's return) nor line 18 - retirement plan contributions

Do not deduct payments for partners to retirement or deferred compensation plans including IRAs, qualified plans, and simplified employee pension (SEP) and SIMPLE IRA plans on this line. These amounts are reported in box 13 of K-1, using code R, and are deducted by the partners on their own returns.

 

 

to balance the return assuming they're recorded as a book expense the amount would be reported on M-1 line 4

 

 

if the LLC is taxed as an S-Corp there are no partners only shareholders for tax purposes. shareholders who perform services for the LLC are also its employees. an owner who performs no services is merely an owner and not an employee. income is allocated in proportion to ownership %. there are no guarantee payments. 

That doesn't mean a formula or other means can't be used to determine their salary but no deductible salary can be paid to an owner who does not perform services. 

if any of these owners did not perform services for the LLC no retirement plan contribution (either by the owner or matching contribution by the LLC) can be made for them. if such was done run to a tax pro because such an action can disqualify the plan. there are severe adverse consequences to the participants if a plan is disqualified.

matching contributions are deductible page 1 line 17 of the 1120S and are not reported by the employee.

employee contributions reduce box 1 of W-2 and are reported using box 12 of the W-2. since taxable wages have been reduced, the employee gets no deduction further deduction on their 1040

LLC Guaranteed Payment and Retirement Contribution

@jeroenf 

 

Not sure what you meant by Partnership (S) ... you either have a partnership OR  an S-Corp.  @Mike9241  gave you the partnership answer. 

LLC Guaranteed Payment and Retirement Contribution

@jeroenf 

 

If you are using TurboTax Business and preparing a 1065, you need to enter the contributions under Partner retirement contributions in the Compensation and Benefits section.

jeroenf
Returning Member

LLC Guaranteed Payment and Retirement Contribution

Sorry: multi-member LLC, files as Partnership; form 1065

jeroenf
Returning Member

LLC Guaranteed Payment and Retirement Contribution

Thanks for the explanation.

I understand that the  guaranteed payments and the retirement contribution flow to (in this case) my personal 1040, where I will enter the amounts from the K-1 of the LLC. 

 

What threw me off was the fact that Balance Sheet section of TT Business appears to subtract the Guaranteed Payments AND the retirement contribution from the revenues to calculate the net earnings. 

I understand now that this would need to be balanced on the M-1 schedule of the 1065.

jeroenf
Returning Member

LLC Guaranteed Payment and Retirement Contribution

@tagteam 

 

Thanks. Yes, I am using TT Business, 1065, and I am entering the amounts under 'Member Retirement Contributions'. My issue was that I was not certain if I had to make the amount I enter under Guaranteed Payments to include the retirement Contribution, or if it had to exclude it. 

I also understand that the deduction is taken on the 1040 of the member, and seeing how the entries on the K-1 are treated on the 1040, I assumed that the Guaranteed Payments reported on line 4a of the K-1 had to include the retirement contribution made on behalf of the partner. 

But then I was confused about why TT would use BOTH amount to calculate the net earnings for Book purposes in the Income Reconciliation section. But I think I get it now.

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