Form 14039

[Mattman]

I believe I need to file Form 14039 on my own behalf. While no one filed fraudulent returns using my identity, I have been a victim of identity theft. Therefore, I plan to check off Box 2 in Section B. 

Accordingly, will filing Form 14039 make it so that I would always have to snail mail paper returns in the future, or may I still e-file in the future (when I do my returns)? Thanks

[mesquitebean]

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@Mattman wrote:

I believe I need to file Form 14039 on my own behalf. While no one filed fraudulent returns using my identity, I have been a victim of identity theft. Therefore, I plan to check off Box 2 in Section B. 

Accordingly, will filing Form 14039 make it so that I would always have to snail mail paper returns in the future, or may I still e-file in the future (when I do my returns)? Thanks

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You will still be able to efile, but you may have to take an extra step.  Once they investigate your 14039, you'll get a letter from the IRS telling if you must use an IP PIN when efiling in the future, or they may inform that you can opt-in to the IP PIN program if you wish.   If the IRS assigns you an IP PIN (a 6-digit Identity Protection PIN), you won't be able to efile without it.  It's also possible to opt-in to the IP PIN program, even if the IRS doesn't mandate one.    Once you start using an IP PIN, you will always have to use an IP PIN--a new one every calendar year.

[Mattman]

Ok well I move in one month and will also file the form to change my address w/ the IRS too. If I send out my 14039 tomorrow or Tuesday, will that cause a problem with me then in one month filing the change of address form too with the IRS? 

[mesquitebean]

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@Mattman wrote:

Ok well I move in one month and will also file the form to change my address w/ the IRS too. If I send out my 14039 tomorrow or Tuesday, will that cause a problem with me then in one month filing the change of address form too with the IRS? 

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You can try phoning the IRS special unit that handles the Form 14039, IP PINS, etc. and tell them your situation and ask them how filing both forms is going to affect things; i.e., that you'll be changing your address while your Form 14039 is being reviewed, and ask them what they suggest.

Here's the number of that department:

800-908-4490, Monday - Friday, 7 a.m. - 7 p.m. your local time

[Mattman]

Would obtaining one of those PINS mean a fraudster could not fraudulent returns by snail mail? Like the IRS would then only accept e-file returns if they issue a PINS?

[Opus 17]

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@Mattman wrote:

Would obtaining one of those PINS mean a fraudster could not fraudulent returns by snail mail? Like the IRS would then only accept e-file returns if they issue a PINS?

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If you are assigned an IP PIN, no one can e-file a tax return in your name without it (including you).  If you print and mail your return, there is a place next to the signature space where you write your IP PIN.  If someone else files a printed, mailed return in your name without the IP PIN (or if you file by mail without it), the IRS will process the return, but it may take longer and the IRS may contact the filer asking that the filer provide additional proof of identity, either by mail or at an IRS office.

Failing to include an IP PIN on a printed return is not an absolute guarantee to stop fraudulent returns from being processed, but it should slow or stop many or most fraud attempts.

[Mattman]

ok great stuff. If i request that PIN, how long before I receive it after I request it? Thanks

[Opus 17]

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@Mattman wrote:

ok great stuff. If i request that PIN, how long before I receive it after I request it? Thanks

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It used to be that only people who were confirmed victims of identity theft could get IP-PINs.  But the IRS is gradually rolling it out to all taxpayers as an opt-in option.  Check first to see if you live in one of the states where you can opt-in. 

https://www.irs.gov/identity-theft-fraud-scams/get-an-identity-protection-pin

If you do, it looks like you can get an IP PIN online as long as you already have a verified IRS account or you can pass the verification checks and get an account.  If you can't pass the verification checks, you will have to wait for a letter that will be mailed to your address of record, it usually takes 10 days and I think it's automatic, so hopefully it won't be slowed down by the COVID backlog.  Once you have an IP PIN by this method, you don't need to file the 14039 unless you have known tax issues from identity theft.

If you don't live in an opt-in state, you will need to mail the form.  It probably usually takes a few weeks, but the IRS is backlogged on anything that requires a human analyst this year, so I couldn't guess when you would get the IP PIN.  If the IP PIN is not assigned by December 31, 2020, then it will not apply to filing your 2020 tax return, even if you receive it in the Spring of 2021. 

See this for more

https://www.irs.gov/identity-theft-fraud-scams/frequently-asked-questions-about-the-identity-protect...

[Mattman]

Ok looks like I'm eligible for the opt-in living in PA. Having never had a PIN, this is probably a really stupid question, but does TurboTax give the ability to e-file if you have this IRS PIN? I'd hope their software asks you if you have one and if so allows you to enter it, but would you know that for sure? Thanks

[mesquitebean]

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@ Mattman wrote:

Ok looks like I'm eligible for the opt-in living in PA. Having never had a PIN, this is probably a really stupid question, but does TurboTax give the ability to e-file if you have this IRS PIN? I'd hope their software asks you if you have one and if so allows you to enter it, but would you know that for sure? Thanks

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Yes, you can efile with TurboTax if you have a 6-digit IP PIN (Identity Protection PIN).  It won't automatically ask you to enter one unless you go through the interview that includes that section.  Once you have an IP PIN, you'll know to look for the entry question in TurboTax, and we can tell you ways to get to the interview section to enter it at that point in time.   If you tried to efile without it, however, the efiled return would transmit, but would be rejected and would cite the reason being the IP PIN.  You'd get a rejection error notice, and then you'd have to go back and enter it and resubmit the efile.   

An increasing number of people are voluntarily opting into the IP PIN program and getting an IP PIN online, which is why it is available to filers in so many states.  Filers in additional states will likely have the opportunity in the future.   It used to be only available if the IRS mandated that you have one.

[Mattman]

So Mesquite...I can voluntarily apply for the PIN online. Assuming I successfully answer the questions, do you have any idea how long it takes for me to get the PIN?

I ask b/c I move on 10/21/2020. So, IDK if I should file form 8822 first on 10/21 and then apply for the PIN? I'd like to start using the PIN for TY 2020. Candidly, IDK why anyone who has this available to them won't get it. 

So it's really a timing issue for me. Hope my timing condundrum makes sense.

I also was a victim of identity theft but am not sure yet if it will have tax consequenes. So I'm also thikning about filing 14039, but then IDK how that would throw wrenches in the filing for the voluntary PIN and/or filing 8822. My understanding is filing 14039 automatically updates your current address, but of course, it takes "up to" 6 months to process.

[mesquitebean · Accepted solution]

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@Mattman wrote:

So Mesquite...I can voluntarily apply for the PIN online. Assuming I successfully answer the questions, do you have any idea how long it takes for me to get the PIN?

When you voluntarily opt-in and pass the verification for an IRS account and the IP PIN, etc., you may get it immediately at the end while you are still online.  I opted-in and got mine immediately--it displayed right at the end of the IP PIN application.   

You have a lot of questions, and we are all fellow users here and can't address all the nuances of the IRS.  You can phone the special IRS unit that handles IP PINS, Form 14039, etc. and speak directly to an IRS agent familiar with all that.  You can ask them about your address issue, too.

Here's the number of that department:

800-908-4490, Monday - Friday, 7 a.m. - 7 p.m. your local time

[Mattman]

Thanks Mesquite. I really appreciate your thoroughness and detail. Just so you know, I have called that number you provided me Sunday night. I called it once yesterday and once today....how do I put my experience with their fraud department. Well, I was quoted a 15-30 minute wait time each time, was on hold for more like 40 (can tell by my cell phone timer) and then I got two agents who had no idea what they were talking about. I explained the $18,500 loan fraud from the SBA and the potential $10,000 additional grant. Surprisingly, they told me not to file 14083, even though a section of the form is specifically for identity theft situations where a fraudulent tax return was not filed. Thankfully, one was not filed for 2019, but my whole point to them was to ensure it didn't happen for TY 2020, since 2020 is the first year this fraudulent loan and additional fraudulent grant were taken out. Then, you factor in the move in one month, the "up to" 6 months processing time for the 14083, etc. and so forth, and all I got was attitude and horrible government issued phone microphones. I felt like I  was calling North Korea or something. What a joke! 

Anyways, I just can't thank you enough. I don't know who you are, but thank you very much! Matt

[mesquitebean]

You're welcome.  Good luck.