SSN to my private piano student who tries to file piano lessons a as a childcare expense?

[Mimiym]

I’d appreciate if you could help me. I’m a private piano teacher and teach at home.

one of my student’s parent asks me to give her my SSN since she tries to file her child’s piano lessons as “childcare expense”. 

I’m not sure if piano lessons are deductible, but she says that she is going to file other activities for her child such as soccer etc. 

in this case,  is she going to file her expenses for piano lessons or other activities as babysitting? And, do I need to give her my SSN as a piano teacher? 
Also, is there any way that I can avoid giving my SSN to her (like just giving her receipt)?  

I don’t really feel comfortable with giving my SSN to my  students parents. 

[MichaelL1]

You do not need to give her your SSN, and I would not give it her.  

You can and should give her a receipt for the amounts she has paid you.  

I worked for IRS as a Revenue Agent ( for over 30 years prior to retiring) doing audits, and you can print this response and give it to the parent. 

[Mimiym]

Thank you so much for the information. It is very helpful.

[Skylark222]

This is really helpful. Just curious for the parents, how can we claim childcare expenses with just the receipt if e.g., a private art teacher does summer camp. 

[Carl]

While I can't see how a 30 minute piano lesson can be considered child care, it's not for me to question. But you don't want to get "bit" by the IRS. So let the tax filer claim what the want, without you compromising your SSN. This way, if anyone gets bit by the IRS, it won't be you.

I can understand why someone would not want to give you their SSN. You understand too. But maybe the caregiver isn’t aware of just how fast and easy it is for them to get an EIN (Employer Identification Number)?  Make them aware that they can go online to http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Apply-for-an-Employer-Identification-... and it will only take them about 10 minutes to get an EIN – which they can then provide to you as required by federal law.

Assuming you have already requested this information from your dependent care provider, and they still refuse to provide it. here is the procedure that you must follow, in order to claim the dependent care credit without the provider’s SSN or EIN.

First, understand that you can not e-file your return without the caregiver’s SSN or EIN. You will have to print, sign and mail it to the IRS. There is no alternative or workaround for this.

Next, print out a form W-10 (Dependent Care Provider’s Identification and Certification) from the IRS website at http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw10.pdf.

Fill out the W-10 form with all the information that you know.

Make 2 additional copies of the filled out W-10 for your own records.

Mail the form to the caregiver via certified mail. Don’t lose your post office receipt.

The caregiver has 10 calendar days to respond. If they respond with the information you need, then you’re good to go. If they have not responded, then on the 11^th day after you mailed it certified mail:

Select the “print and file” option for your tax return. This will print only the documents required for filing, along with an instruction sheet that contains the address of the specific IRS processing center you will mail it to.

Include in your mailing a copy (not an original) of your proof of notification (the certified mail receipt you got at the post office), and a copy of the W-10 that you sent to the caregiver.

That’s it. While this will delay your refund (it’ll be 6-8 weeks before you get it), you’ll still get the credit. At this point, it’s no longer your problem – it’s the caregiver’s.

[Skylark222]

Thank you so much for your insight!

[Dramass]

I understand your concern about giving out your SSN. As a piano teacher myself, I've encountered similar situations. Piano lessons typically aren't considered childcare expenses, so it's unlikely she'd be able to claim them as such.
You could suggest providing a receipt without your SSN, just detailing the payment and service rendered. As for avoiding giving out your SSN altogether, that's definitely something to explore further. And hey, if you're looking for alternative teaching methods, you might want to check out online music lessons. They can offer flexibility and reach a wider audience.

[Opus 17]

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@Skylark222 wrote:

This is really helpful. Just curious for the parents, how can we claim childcare expenses with just the receipt if e.g., a private art teacher does summer camp. 

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The technical answer is that you must make diligent efforts to collect the tax ID number of the provider.  You give them a form w-10, and document their refusal to provide the tax ID number, possibly by a letter or text messages.  Then, when you file your tax return, you write "refused" in the box on form 2441 where the tax number is supposed to be.  You file your return by mail (you can't e-file) and attach a written explanation that includes the care provider's name, address, phone number, any other identifying information, and includes a description of your diligent efforts to get the tax number.  The IRS will evaluate the claim on a case-by-case basis.

Here, of course, piano lessons, soccer lessons, and so on, do not count as child care for the child care credit. 

[NCperson]

page 6   - 

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p503.pdf

Are These Work-Related Expenses?
Child and dependent care expenses must be work related to qualify for the credit. Expenses are considered work related only if both of the following are true.
• They allow you (or your spouse if filing jointly) to work or look for work.
• They are for a qualifying person's care.

I'd be hard pressed to say that piano lessons are primarily to care for a qualifying person!

[Beckyevreniadis]

Please speak to a Tax Attorney or a certified public accountant. I’m willing to bet your parents will not accept some random answer as gods word in regards to tax filings. Revenue officer or not, you not she knows this person so why would she trust his answer on a public site. I hope he’s not seriously thinking he has that kind of power, lol. However, lessons and sports are only deductible if you are paying for travel expenses, and things of that nature or if your child has a medical diagnosis with doctors notes that they need this care and the sport or music is a part of their treatment

[Beckyevreniadis]

Receipts and EIN number for the camp.

[Beckyevreniadis]

If her child has a disability or a medical diagnosis on paper, music lessons can be considered therapy and that case you can file this on your taxes. If there is no medical diagnosis, you cannot file music lessons.

[NCperson]

@Beckyevreniadis can you please reference an IRS source that supports your statement?

Much appreciated in advance. 

The original question related to child and dependent care credit, but I sense you are now turning that into a medical expense deduction?  either way, a IRS link that supports your statement would be great!

Please note that on page 2, the provider of the service must be a medical professional for a medical service to be a deductible medical expense.  I don't see that a music teacher, without medical credentials, would even begin to qualify the expense as deductible. 

www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p502.pdf

"These expenses include payments for legal medical services rendered by physicians, surgeons, dentists, and other medical practitioners."