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Margin interest

Unable to correctly account for margin interest in TurboTax Business 2022. My LLC's margin interest exceeds the income & per all IRS, etc guidelines MUST be carried forward via Form 4952...I'm unable to "Add Form"4952. Neither I nor TurboTax support are able to find a work around for this.

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1 Best answer

Accepted Solutions

Margin interest

11 Replies

Margin interest

Multi-member LLCs do not file Form 4952 in conjunction with their Form 1065.

 

The figure will appear on your K-1 (Line 13 with an H code) for entry into your individual income tax return (on Form 4952).

 

 

See https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4952.pdf

Who Must File
If you are an individual, estate, or a trust, you must file Form 4952 to claim a deduction for your investment interest expense.

Margin interest

I should add that all IRS guidance that I could find says that it must be accounted for at 'the partnership level' until able to report via K-1 to partners.

Margin interest

Thanks for the reply but I've already explored that route (as did support) & since my LLC files as a partnership that route is NOT available...see my add on reply posted just now.

Margin interest

4952 instructions

Who Must File
If you are an individual, estate, or a trust, you must file Form 4952 to
claim a deduction for your investment interest expense.

 

you must report the investment interest on the partnership return. but form 4952 is not required to do this. the purpose of the form is to limit the deduction, if necessary, but the limitation only occurs at the individual, estate or trust level.  the IRS knows all it needs to know, the amount to be allocated to partners, from the entry on schedule K line 13b

Margin interest

Again thanks, BUT there will NOT be an entry on said line or any other line of the partners' K-1 until the deduction is finally resolved "in the future at the partnership level" which can ONLY be done by filing a Form 4952 'at the partnership level' which then carries it forward, etc. As stated in the original post TurboTax support & I spent an hour+ trying to find a work around to the program!

Margin interest


@wellhopper wrote:

....BUT there will NOT be an entry on said line or any other line of the partners' K-1 until the deduction is finally resolved "in the future at the partnership level" which can ONLY be done by filing a Form 4952....


No, sorry, but you're wrong (so is Support if they told you that). Form 4952 is not filed with a 1065. 

 

The deduction is passed through the partners (members) on Line 13 (H Code) of the K-1s (1065). Each partner (member) then enters that figure in their individual income tax returns (which does get reported on Form 4952 at that point).

Margin interest

Line 13H - K-1 (1065):

 

Code H. Investment interest expense. Include this amount on Form 4952, line 1. 


For more information on the special provisions that apply to investment interest expense, see Form 4952 and Pub. 550, Investment Income and Expenses.

Margin interest

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Margin interest

Sorry I took so long to answer as I was 'testing' the various solutions in my return. I'm happy to report that I'm following your solution! It's what I did last year before I went in the weeds this year when I discovered IRS 'Basic Q&A to limitations...' dated 10 Jan 2023. Go figure!

 

For those following this thread, I have a storied 60+ year relationship with the IRS & 30+ years with TurboTax so I check & triple (at least) check my returns. I'm happy to award 5 stars to this solution! Thanks again Champ!

 

DGusman
New Member

Margin interest

if you go into the view menu and view forms, you can enter form 4952 and it will bring up the worksheet for the form where you can manually enter the information.  I am about to do this for my brokerage account, as the import of my tax forms has the info on what my margin interest was, but it did not import it into the forms.

 

If your expense exceeded your income, then you get to deduct a portion (I believe it is $3,000 for an individual) and carry the rest over to next year.

 

Please not, I am not a tax attorney or an accountant, nor do I play one on TV. I am just an investor that knows my way around this software.

DaveF1006
Expert Alumni

Margin interest

If you are able itemize your deductions for the year, you will be able to claim the investment interest expense. This interest expense is reported in the following manner.

 

  • Federal
  • Deductions and Credits
  • Retirement and Investments
  • Investment Interest Expenses

If you are able to claim, the amount claim this year cannot exceed the amount of your investment distributions for the year. If the expenses are greater than your investment, the excess amount gets carried forward to the next year and potentially can be used to reduce taxes in the future. 

 

The $3K reference you made is something different and relates to an investment sale. Your 1099B, reports  proceeds of sale and cost basis. There are other factors that play into this such as date you bought the security and the date sold. When all of this is combined, you will either receive a capital gain or capital loss. If the capital loss is greater than $3,000, the excess is a carryover. This is treated a little differently because investment expenses are not accounted in in determining capital gain or loss.

 

The distinction may seem a little hazy but you cannot factor in investment expenses when you report a capital gains sale. These expenses are only deductible separately as an itemized deduction that is available if you have other itemized deductions to report such as large medical expenses, home mortgage interest,  large charitable contributions, etc.  

 

If you don't have enough expenses to itemize, you will default to a standard deduction, which is higher than your standard deduction. If this is the case, you will be unable to claim your investment expense for this year.

 

let us know if this helps.

 

@DGusman 

 

 

 

 

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