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Question about Solo Roth 401(k) plan and contribution rules - please help

Hello I recently opened a Roth Solo 401(k) account with Vanguard. I am self-employed with a single member LLC that has passthrough taxation. This year of 2023 we are expecting the business to show a loss and thus show a loss on the tax return which will show a loss for my personal tax return because of the passthrough taxation. Am I allowed to contribute to my Roth Solo 401(k) plan if my tax return shows no income? What happens if I contribute to the 401(k) now, then discover in January of next year that we indeed had a loss in 2023? 

 

Question 2: is it too late to contribute to my Roth Solo 401(k) plan for the year of 2022? 


Thank you for any help on this!

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1 Best answer

Accepted Solutions
dmertz
Level 15

Question about Solo Roth 401(k) plan and contribution rules - please help

1a.  If the single-member LLC is not an S corp, with no profit there can be no contribution to the Solo 401(k).  Contributions to the solo 401(k) are limited to net-profit from self-employment minus the deductible portion of self-employment taxes.

 

1b.  If the single-member LLC is an S corp, employee elective deferrals or Roth contributions are limited to compensation shown on the individual's W-2.

 

The deadline to elect an employee Roth contribution for 2022 was December 31, 2022 and the deadline to make an employer contribution was the due date of your 2022 tax return, including extensions.  The tax code has since been changed for tax years 2023 and beyond to allow a self-employed individual to make the election up through the due date of their tax return, including extensions, with regard to a new plan established after year end.

 

If you make an excess elective deferral or Roth contribution, you have until April 15 (not the due date of the tax return) to obtain a corrective distribution.  The amount distributed will be the excess adjusted for attributable investment gain or loss and any gain will be taxable in the year distributed.  If the excess is not distributed, an excess deferral (but not a Roth contribution) will be taxable on the tax return for the year for which the contribution was made and the excess and any attributable gain will be taxable when eventually distributed.  The result is double taxation of the excess amount.  To avoid making an excess contribution as self-employed, you can make the election by December 31, 2023 but not make the contribution until you have determined your net profit.

 

The tax code has also been changed to allow employer contributions to be Roth contributions, but your plan may not have adopted that option.

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9 Replies

Question about Solo Roth 401(k) plan and contribution rules - please help

I'll page @dmertz 

dmertz
Level 15

Question about Solo Roth 401(k) plan and contribution rules - please help

1a.  If the single-member LLC is not an S corp, with no profit there can be no contribution to the Solo 401(k).  Contributions to the solo 401(k) are limited to net-profit from self-employment minus the deductible portion of self-employment taxes.

 

1b.  If the single-member LLC is an S corp, employee elective deferrals or Roth contributions are limited to compensation shown on the individual's W-2.

 

The deadline to elect an employee Roth contribution for 2022 was December 31, 2022 and the deadline to make an employer contribution was the due date of your 2022 tax return, including extensions.  The tax code has since been changed for tax years 2023 and beyond to allow a self-employed individual to make the election up through the due date of their tax return, including extensions, with regard to a new plan established after year end.

 

If you make an excess elective deferral or Roth contribution, you have until April 15 (not the due date of the tax return) to obtain a corrective distribution.  The amount distributed will be the excess adjusted for attributable investment gain or loss and any gain will be taxable in the year distributed.  If the excess is not distributed, an excess deferral (but not a Roth contribution) will be taxable on the tax return for the year for which the contribution was made and the excess and any attributable gain will be taxable when eventually distributed.  The result is double taxation of the excess amount.  To avoid making an excess contribution as self-employed, you can make the election by December 31, 2023 but not make the contribution until you have determined your net profit.

 

The tax code has also been changed to allow employer contributions to be Roth contributions, but your plan may not have adopted that option.

Question about Solo Roth 401(k) plan and contribution rules - please help

 @dmertz thank you very much for this information. It sounds like if the single member LLC which is treated as disregarded entity with passthrough taxation shows a loss, I cannot contribute to my Solo Roth 401(k) account. Thus, we might elect to not take some business deductions in order to show a NET profit on the tax return, thus enabling me to contribute to the Solo 401(k). Based on what you've told me and what I've researched, if the LLC shows a $20,000 NET profit for the 2023 tax year, I should be able to contribute $20,000 to my Solo Roth 401(k) account. 

dmertz
Level 15

Question about Solo Roth 401(k) plan and contribution rules - please help

Intentionally failing to report legitimate business expenses would be fraudulent.

https://www.eitc.irs.gov/tax-preparer-toolkit/frequently-asked-questions/earned-income-self-employme...

Question about Solo Roth 401(k) plan and contribution rules - please help

Oh wow, good to know. Well some good news: we're looking at a financial loss for the year due to loan payments, which according to what I've researched are *not* tax deductible. Also, I made personal income outside of the business from investments and selling other items on the internet. Since not reporting this additional personal income would be fraudulent, I'm sure you would recommend that I report it, thus showing a NET profit on my tax return and being able to contribute to my 401(k) plan. Thanks again!

dmertz
Level 15

Question about Solo Roth 401(k) plan and contribution rules - please help

Personal income outside of the business from investments and selling other items on the internet is not compensation and does not support any kind of retirement contribution.  "Profit" can come only from your business activity.

Question about Solo Roth 401(k) plan and contribution rules - please help

The principal payments on loans are not tax deductible, and that's why the business will be showing a financial loss for 2023 (payments on business loans). Since we cannot deduct these business loan principal payments on our taxes, the business will show a NET profit for 2023, thus allowing me to contribute to my 401(k) plan. Thanks!

dmertz
Level 15

Question about Solo Roth 401(k) plan and contribution rules - please help

"that's why the business will be showing a financial loss for 2023 (payments on business loans)."

 

I don't see how this constitutes a financial loss.  Payments of business-loan principal reduce the business's assets but also reduce the business's debt.

Question about Solo Roth 401(k) plan and contribution rules - please help

We are using an online bookkeeping/accounting service that counted business principal loan payments in the Expenses portion of our books. Without these business loan principal payments in the expenses, the business made a NET profit. Since business loan principal payments are not tax deductible (just the interest) this means the tax return would show a NET profit. 

 

Thanks again for your insights and wisdom. 

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