I cannot find anything in the tax code or any other independent sources that treat the sale of a rental property the same way turbo tax does. The sale of a rental property is the sale of a 1250 asset and I do not see where the tax code allows you to allocate a portion of the proceeds to land thereby reducing the depreciation recapture tax. Can anyone point me to an IRS publication or other resource?
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Turbo tax does it that way BUT it doesn't matter whether you allocate to land or not....the whole thing comes out in the wash anyway where your entire depreciation deductions you took or should have taken are recaptured.
OK, so to take this to an insane level what if my rental house is fully depreciated and I sell it for $500k.....years ago I allocated $50k to land and $200k to the building. Like you my land has appreciated substantially and now has a FMV of $400k. Can I allocate $400k of the sales price to land and $100k to the building? What happens to the other $100k worth of depreciation deductions I took over the years?
@yliggie So how are you going to handle this? I'd feel better if anyone could offer authority in the code or regs for, well, anything because I believe it's ONE asset that you're selling.....the real estate where the sales price of the land and building don't need to be separated out.
Well that 'mass disposition', IMO, is the best because the proceeds will line up with the 1099S form that the seller's going to receive from the closing company and it allows for full recapture of total depreciation deductions taken.
Turbo tax does it that way BUT it doesn't matter whether you allocate to land or not....the whole thing comes out in the wash anyway where your entire depreciation deductions you took or should have taken are recaptured.
It did make a big difference. The property I sold was essentially a tear down and about 50% of my basis has been depreciated. It is in an area that saw substantial appreciation in the land values so I allocated 75% of the sale proceeds to land and 25% to improvements. The 25% allocated to improvements did not exceed my deprecated basis so I had no recapture tax. If I allocate more of the proceeds to improvements then the gain exceeds the basis and I have to pay recapture tax. I can justify the larger allocation to land as nearby vacant land has sold for similar prices as my property with improvements but I'm just not convinced it is allowed.
A local CPA told me, "When you sell real property, you must sell both property and land together. You cannot split the proceeds and sell the land and property separately to avoid depreciation recapture. Sorry." I typically trust turbotax but I'm concerned on this one.
OK, so to take this to an insane level what if my rental house is fully depreciated and I sell it for $500k.....years ago I allocated $50k to land and $200k to the building. Like you my land has appreciated substantially and now has a FMV of $400k. Can I allocate $400k of the sales price to land and $100k to the building? What happens to the other $100k worth of depreciation deductions I took over the years?
Given the increases in property values in many parts of the country that is not an insane example and is not far off from what I am looking at. In your scenario you pay long term capital gains at 15% on that other $100k instead of depreciation recapture at 25%, a difference of $10k in tax liability. As you can see these numbers are significant so I wish I knew if what turbotax is doing was legal.
TurboTax has an accuracy guarantee. Do I take the chance and if it ever gets challenged by the IRS call on TurboTax to pay any penalties and interest?
I probably need to start a new thread but I would like to hear from any user has successfully collected from TurboTax on their guarantee.
When you sell rental property at a gain, you are required by federal law to recapture all depreciation taken on all assets and pay taxes on it in the year of the sale.
Now the TurboTax program has it's own quirks. Basically, if you sold the property at a gain, then you ***MUST*** show a gain on every single asset - even if that gain on some assets is only $1. If you do not do this, then you risk the program reporting the sale *INCORRECTLY* as the program may *NOT* catch the error, because mathematically, there is no error to catch. Sometimes it catches it. Sometimes it doesn't. Just depends on the numbers. Examples:
Example 1: (my numbers are not accurate, but picked out of "thin air" to make a point.)
You paid $100,000 for the property 10 years ago. When you set it up on your taxes you allocated $30,000 to the land and $70,000 to the structure. Since land is not a depreciated asset, the structure value of $70,000 was depreciated over a 27.5 year depreciation schedule. In 2019 you sold the property for $150,000.
Depreciation already taken: $35,000. This makes your "adjusted" cost basis in the structure $35,000 while your cost basis in the land is still $30,000 since the land is not depreciated.
When allocating your sale price, the amount you allocate to the structure "must be" at least $1 moe than your "original" structure value of $70,000. This is to allow for the "correct" recapture and taxation of the recaptured depreciation. So here's a possible way to allocate the sales price.
Structure sales price $75,001
Structure sales expenses $5000
Gain on sale of structure after subtracting sales expenses: $1
Add to the gain the recaptured depreciation and the gain is $35,001
Land sales price: $74,999
Gain on sale of land determined by subtracting original cost of land $35,000 from sales price of $74,999 and the taxable gain is $39,999
Total taxable gain which includes the recaptured depreciation is $75,000.
Exampe 2: (with an incorrect allocation of sales price)
Structure sales price $70,000
Structure sales expenses $5000
Gain on sale of structure after subtracting sales expenses: No gain. There's a $5000 loss.
Add to the gain/loss figure the recaptured depreciation and the gain is $30,000
You have $5000 of depreciation that has "not" been recaptured. While this may or may not generate an error for you in the TTX program, it will most definitely raise flags at the IRS.
Reporting the Sale of Rental Property
If you qualify for the "lived in 2 of last 5 years" capital gains exclusion, then when prompted you WILL indicate that this sale DOES INCLUDE the sale of your main home. For AD MIL personnel who don't qualify because of PCS orders, select this option anyway, because you "MIGHT" qualify for at last a partial exclusion.
Start working through Rental & Royalty Income (SCH E) "AS IF" you did not sell the property. One of the screens near the start will have a selection on it for "I sold or otherwise disposed of this property in 2019". Select it. After you select the "I sold or otherwise disposed of this property in 2019" you continue working it through "as if" you still own it. When you come to the summary screen you will enter all of your rental income and expenses, even it it's zero. Then you MUST work through the "Sale of Assets/Depreciation" section. You must work through each individual asset one at a time to report its disposition (in your case, all your rental assets were sold).
Understand that if more than the property itself is listed in your assets list, then you need to allocate your sales price across all of your assets. You will only allocate the structure sales price; you will NOT allocate the land sales price, since the land is not a depreciable asset. Then if you sold this rental at a gain, you must show a gain on all assets, even if that gain is $1. Likewise, if you sold at a loss then you must show a loss on all assets, even if that loss is $1
Basically, when working through an asset you select the option for "I stopped using this asset in 2019" and go from there. Note that you MUST do this for EACH AND EVERY asset listed.
When you finish working through everything listed in the assets section, if you ever at any time you owned this rental you claimed vehicle expenses, then you must also work through the vehicle section and show the disposition of the vehicle. Most likely, your vehicle disposition will be "removed for personal use", as I seriously doubt you sold your vehicle as a part of this rental sale.
Thanks @Carl this makes sense. It seems to me that the allocation process that turbotax has you go through is completely pointless and only introduces errors and confusion. I appreciate your insights!
It's basically the same way you'd do it if you were using the blank IRS forms and filling them out by hand and using a calculator for the math.
When you're done review the SCH D as well as the form 4797 to confirm for yourself the depreciation recapture is "in fact" being figured correctly and reported correctly by the program.
@yliggie So how are you going to handle this? I'd feel better if anyone could offer authority in the code or regs for, well, anything because I believe it's ONE asset that you're selling.....the real estate where the sales price of the land and building don't need to be separated out.
I take a different position. the sales price should be allocated to each asset (land, building and improvements) based on there relative Fair Market Value at the time of sale. Admittedly this is easier said than done because it's virtually impossible (short of a component appraisal) to determine what the FMV is today of say an electrical upgrade that was done 10 years ago. TT really can't handle very well situations like this.
I've seen CPA firms handle a situation like yours in multiple ways after discussion with the client. This not make it right. Usually, they have an advantage in that their software is more sophisticated and allows them to do things not possible in TT.
1) do a mass disposition - all the assets costs including land are lump together as 1 asset and the related depreciation is combined so the 4797 shows only the sale of 1 asset. thus any gain first goes to depreciation recapture and then the excess is capital gain
2) all or certain components are allocated a sales price and cost of sale so there is no gain or loss. the rest is allocated to land and building (even how this is done varies from situation to situation)
do whatever you want, but TT does not guarantee accuracy as to allocations determined by client input.
Well that 'mass disposition', IMO, is the best because the proceeds will line up with the 1099S form that the seller's going to receive from the closing company and it allows for full recapture of total depreciation deductions taken.
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