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TT is not allowing rental loss. Expenses exceed income on rental property that was rented for a partial year. How do I get the full loss instead of just zeroing out the income?
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If you used the house for personal purposes for the greater of 14 days or 10 percent of the time it was rented during the year, then the property is considered a personal dwelling unit and as such you can only deduct rental expenses up to the amount of your rental income.
So, you will not be able to deduct the full loss in this circumstance. That my be why TurboTax is limiting your rental deductions.
We actually didn't live in it any but didn't decide to rent it until May. Previously I rented out a prior personal residence but was able to take a loss that first year even tho it was rented only part of a year. Have the rules changed? Will the losses be able to be carried over?
Thanks for your help!
The rules have not changed and you can't carryover a loss disallowed because of personal use days.
You should be allowed a full deduction for expenses applicable to the time the property was rented or was available for rent during the year if you did not use the property for personal use during the year, as you describe. You may have answered the question wrong in TurboTax on the screen in the rental section that says Was This Property Rented for All of 2021? You need to enter the days rented at fair market value and put -0- for the personal use days to allow for all expenses to be deducted.
Also, if the house was rented for less than fair market value, that is considered personal use.
Most likely, you misinterpreted one of the screens in the Property Profile section. Thus, excess losses aren't allowed because of an incorrect selection by you. I see this quite a bit, and it happens for one or both of two reasons. Either the small print on the screen where you enter data does not provide "clear" clarity or provides no clarity at all, or the user does not read the small print at all. So use the below guidance to check your selections.
Rental Property Dates & Numbers That Matter.
Date of Conversion - If this was your primary residence or 2nd home before, then this date is the day AFTER you moved out, or the date you decided to lease the property – whichever is later.
In Service Date - This is the date a renter "could" have moved in. Usually, this date is the day you put the FOR RENT sign in the front yard.
Number of days Rented - the day count for this starts from the first day a renter was contracted to move in, and/or "could" have moved in. That would be your "in service" date or after if you were asked for that. Vacant periods between renters do not count for actual days rented. Please see IRS Publication927 page 17 at https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p527.pdf#en_US_2020_publink1000219175 Read the “Example” in the third column.
Days of Personal Use - This number will be a big fat ZERO. Read the screen. It's asking for the number of days you lived in the property AFTER you converted it to a rental. I seriously doubt (though it is possible) that you lived in the house (or space, if renting a part of your home) as your primary residence, 2nd home, or any other personal use reasons after you converted it to a rental.
Business Use Percentage. 100%. I'll put that in words so there's no doubt I didn't make a typo here. One Hundred Percent. After you converted this property or space to rental use, it was one hundred percent business use. What you used it for prior to the date of conversion doesn't count.
another possibility. is your adjusted gross income, before the "rental loss" more than $150,000. then the passive activity rules bar a current deduction. the loss will carry over to either a year when AGI drops below $150K or you sell the property.
I'm sorry to bother you again but I think I need to give you more specific information. I've read Pub. 527 and I'm still confused. So the facts: my parents have owned a home in Charleston SC since 1975 or thereabout. They came to our house in VA in Dec. 2020 because Daddy was sick and covid was rampant in SC. We realized then they would never live by themselves again. Daddy died in March 2021. My mom needs care and so she continues to live with us. They never lived in the home in 2021 altho we went down in April for 2-3 weeks and cleaned out their possessions and started doing work to get the house in better shape. My niece is renting the house now and started paying rent July 1st although they lived in the house for several weeks to supervise some of the repairs, etc. I consider it is FMV rent based on the condition of the house and its size. So we had over 16k in expenses and $11k in income. I hate to lose the $6k but of course I want to do this the correct and legal way. It appears from Pub. 527 that since there was no personal use by my parents, perhaps that counts. A concern is that we knew we would have to rent or sell the house but had not really figured out what to do until Daddy died.
Another issue I have is whether Mama is considered a resident of SC or VA! I was thinking maybe half year resident of each. If you have any insight into that issue, I would very much appreciate your advice.
Many thanks!!
Daddy died in March 2021.
I'm sorry for your loss. Be aware that your mother will still file a joint tax return and will get the full $12,550 standard deduction for 2021. Just make sure the option for "this tax filer passed away" is selected for your father.
My mom needs care and so she continues to live with us. They never lived in the home in 2021
What matters here is intent at the time mom came to live with you. If the intent was that she would never return to the home, the property stopped being her primary residence. Maybe that intent was established when dad passed away? Overall, until things are/were changed, the home remains your mom's primary residence. At the latest, it ceased being her primary residence at the time it was decided to rent the property out.
altho we went down in April for 2-3 weeks and cleaned out their possessions and started doing work to get the house in better shape.
At the earliest, I would treat that as the earliest date it was no longer considered her primary residence, and is the date I would use for tax purposes. But that's me.
My niece is renting the house now and started paying rent July 1st
So at the latest, the house was converted from personal use, to residential rental real estate on the contracted move-in date.
although they lived in the house for several weeks to supervise some of the repairs, etc.
You "may" be able to consider that period to make the conversion date even earlier, provided rent was paid for that time. The issue is, when it comes to repair and maintenance expenses, those incurred in the process of preparing the property for rent for the very first time, are just flat out not deductible, unless the property was actually "available for rent" and basically move-in ready when the expenses were incurred.
I consider it is FMV rent based on the condition of the house and its size.
For the SCH E, depreciation is based on the "Lower" of what was paid for it when originally purchased, or it's FMV on the date of conversion. More than likely since the house was originally purchased by your parents in 1975 or thereabouts, what they paid for it would be the lower amount. However, even that's not final since dad passed in 2021. Your parent's were each 50% ownership of the property. So when dad passed, mom gets a step up in basis to the FMV of dad's 50% on the date of his passing. Any property improvements done before he passed are included in that stepped up basis too.
So we had over 16k in expenses and $11k in income.
Understand that there is a difference between repair/maintenance expenses, and property improvements. An explanation of that later below in this post.
I hate to lose the $6k but of course I want to do this the correct and legal way.
You lose either way. Since the property is owned by your mother, everything concering it gets reported on her tax return; not yours. All rental expeneses and property improvements are reported on her return, regardless of who paid for them. ALl rental income is claimed on her tax return, regardless of who actually received the money.
It appears from Pub. 527 that since there was no personal use by my parents, perhaps that counts.
Counts for what? I'm not clear on that. Be aware there is difference between personal use property, and primary residence. A primary residence is personal use property. But not all personal use property has to be one's primary residence. One can have a 2nd home that is personal use, but not their primary residence.
A concern is that we knew we would have to rent or sell the house but had not really figured out what to do until Daddy died.
At the absolute latest, the property converted from personal use to residential rental real estate on July 1st. At the earliest, (as I see it) on the date of dad's passing.
Another issue I have is whether Mama is considered a resident of SC or VA! I was thinking maybe half year resident of each. If you have any insight into that issue, I would very much appreciate your advice.
Since it has been determined that mom will never be returning to SC, I would suggest she file a part-year residence return for both states, and use the date of your dad's passing as the date her resident state changed.
Now for that explanation of rental stuff I mentioned I'd provide; It's a lot I know. But don't let it overwhelm you by trying to absorb it all in one shot.
RENTAL PROPERTY ASSETS, MAINTENANCE/CLEANING/REPAIRS DEFINED
Property Improvement.
Property improvements are expenses you incur that Improve, restore, or otherwise “better” the property. Basically, they retain or add value to the property.
Betterments:
Expenses that may result in a betterment to your property include expenses for fixing a pre-existing defect or condition, enlarging or expanding your property, or increasing the capacity, strength, or quality of your property. An example of a pre-existing condition or defect in this context would be something such as foundation repair (slab jacking) or some other, hidden and costly, anomaly.
Restoration:
Expenses that may be for restoration include expenses for replacing a substantial structural part of your property, repairing damage to your property after you properly adjusted the basis of your property as a result of a casualty loss, or rebuilding your property to a like-new condition.
Adaptation:
Expenses that may be for adaptation include expenses for altering your property to a use that isn’t consistent with the intended ordinary use of your property when you began renting the property. Adding a wheelchair ramp would be an example.
Expenses for these types of costs are entered in the Assets/Depreciation section and depreciated over time. Property improvements can be done at any time after your initial purchase of the property. It does not matter if it was your residence or a rental at the time of the improvement. It still adds value to the property.
To be classified as a property improvement, two criteria need to be met:
1) The improvement must become "a material part of" the property. For example, remodeling the bathroom, new cabinets or appliances in the kitchen. New carpet. Replacing that old Central Air unit.
2) The improvement must retain or add "real" value to the property. In other words, when the property is appraised by a qualified, certified, licensed property appraiser, he will appraise it at a higher value, than he would have without the improvements.
There are rules that allow you to just flat-out expense and deduct some property improvements instead of capitalizing and depreciating them, if the total cost of the improvement was less than $2,500. It’s referred to as “safe harbor di-minimis” But depending on the specific situation, this may or may not be beneficial. Just be aware that not every property improvement that cost less than $2,500 qualifies for this. If this interest you, the rules can get complex. So a good place to start reading is on the IRS website at https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/tangible-property-final-regulations. The stuff on di-minimis starts about one page down.
Cleaning & Maintenance
Those expenses incurred to maintain the rental property and its assets in the usable condition the property and/or asset was designed and intended for. Routine cleaning and maintenance expenses are only deductible if they are incurred while the property is classified as a rental. Cleaning and maintenance expenses incurred in the process of preparing the property for rent for the very first time are not deductible.
Repair
Those expenses incurred to return the property or its assets to the same usable condition they were in, prior to the event that caused the property or asset to be unusable. Repair expenses incurred are only deductible if incurred while the property is classified as a rental. Repair costs incurred in the process of preparing the property for rent for the very first time are not deductible.
Additional clarifications: Painting a room does not qualify as a property improvement. While the paint does become “a material part of” the property, from the perspective of a property appraiser, it doesn’t add “real value” to the property.
However, when you do something like convert the garage into a 3rd bedroom for example, making a 2-bedroom house into a 3-bedroom house adds “real value”. Of course, when you convert the garage to a bedroom, you’re going to paint it. But you will include the cost of painting as a part of the property improvement – not an expense separate from it.
Rental Property Dates & Numbers That Matter.
Date of Conversion - If this was your primary residence or 2nd home before, then this date is the day AFTER you moved out, or the date you decided to lease the property – whichever is later.
In Service Date - This is the date a renter "could" have moved in. Usually, this date is the day you put the FOR RENT sign in the front yard.
Number of days Rented - the day count for this starts from the first day a renter was contracted to move in, and/or "could" have moved in. That would be your "in service" date or after if you were asked for that. Vacant periods between renters do not count for actual days rented. Please see IRS Publication927 page 17 at https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p527.pdf#en_US_2020_publink1000219175 Read the “Example” in the third column.
Days of Personal Use - This number will be a big fat ZERO. Read the screen. It's asking for the number of days you lived in the property AFTER you converted it to a rental. I seriously doubt (though it is possible) that you lived in the house (or space, if renting a part of your home) as your primary residence, 2nd home, or any other personal use reasons after you converted it to a rental. Days you lived in the property for the purpose of preparing it for rent (or for the next renter) do not count as personal use days either.
Business Use Percentage. 100%. I'll put that in words so there's no doubt I didn't make a typo here. One Hundred Percent. After you converted this property or space to rental use, it was one hundred percent business use. What you used it for prior to the date of conversion doesn't count.
I really appreciate the time and effort you took to reply to my questions!! You went above and beyond! I need to re-read your answers a few times and will then proceed to figure out Sch. E. Thank you so very much!!
Thanks again for your help. Could you please tell me where in either Instructions for Sch. E or Publication 527 it says that expenses incurred the first year the home was converted to a rental before the tenants moved in (altho the house was technically rented to them) are not deductible? I understand prorating insurance and taxes but I'm not understanding why expenses to get the house in shape for renters to actually move in would not be deductible. Appreciate any help you can give me!
As has been explained by @Carl any repairs or renovations done before the property became available for rent cannot be deducted. These costs should be added to the basis of the property. @Carl also explained that there is a step-up in basis as of his date of death. Any improvements, repairs, or renovations made before this passing would be included in the step-up basis.
You will get a deduction for depreciation from the date the property was available for rent. Since these costs are added to the basis (the price you paid for the property plus costs of repairs, improvements, and/or renovations equals basis). The value of the land is not deductible and must be subtracted from the total price of the FMV of the home.
You may not deduct the cost of improvements. A rental property is improved only if the amounts paid are for a betterment or restoration or adaptation to a new or different use. See the Tangible Property Regulations - Frequently Asked Questions for more information about improvements. The cost of improvements is recovered through depreciation.
You can recover some or all of your improvements by using Form 4562 to report depreciation beginning in the year your rental property is first placed in service, and beginning in any year you make an improvement or add furnishings. Only a percentage of these expenses are deductible in the year they are incurred.
There is one minor exception to this rule: you can deduct up to $5,000 of your real estate start-up costs in the year that your rental is placed into service. The excess amount of real estate start-up costs over $5,000 will be amortized over a 180 month period.
Real Estate Rental Start-up Costs
TurboTax provides the following information for How Do I Enter Start-up Costs?
you can deduct up to $5,000 of your real estate start-up costs in the year that your rental is placed into service.
Can you show me exactly where that is? I see it nowhere in IRS Publication 527. Was that changed with the major tax changes of 2018 and I missed it maybe? I can't find anything anywhere that says startup costs of any type are allowed for residential rental real estate.
This is true for a SCH C business, but is not true for a SCH E rental.
Thanks for your help! I just want to confirm I'm doing the correct basis for depreciation.
Parents bought house in 1978 for $71,387
Improvements w/receipts (probably more but don't have documentation: $18,622
At time of Daddy's death the FMV was estimated at $365,500. So his share is $182,750
The tax assessment for 2021 says $259,900
Value of land: $85,827
So I'm not sure whether to go with the tax assessment value as the FMV or what's on Zillow.
Please correct me if I'm wrong:
Adjusted basis would be 71,387 + 18,622 + 182,750 = $272,759 . This is figure to use for depreciation?
Also I wanted to confirm that I can just expense some items that cost less than $2500 using the safe harbor (I think) method. Example: $450 microwave, ceiling fans $1500, toilets $250/each. Can I just list them as repairs so I don't have to depreciate?
Thanks again for your expertise!
Please see your questions with answers following below.
So I'm not sure whether to go with the tax assessment value as the FMV or what's on Zillow.
Adjusted basis would be 71,387 + 18,622 + 182,750 = $272,759 . This is figure to use for depreciation?
Also I wanted to confirm that I can just expense some items that cost less than $2500 using the safe harbor (I think) method. Example: $450 microwave, ceiling fans $1500, toilets $250/each. Can I just list them as repairs so I don't have to depreciate?
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