2296886
We purchased a Condo in June 2018 for 100% rental income. In Sept 2018 we started a big refurb project that took us till Nov 1 2018 when done for new rentals.
For 2018, we hired a CPA but that really didn't work out. I have the tax return pdf with me.
For 2019 Taxes
I entered the numbers in for the Purchase and added another entry for the Major Improvement, but the DATES confuse me.
For the Section for Major Improvements......
1. Date Purchased or Acquired ??? Is it June, Sept, or Nov ????
2. Next Screen, assumed that that the refurb was not a new Asset so said 'None of the above'
3. Date first started using it for business (refurb) would be?
4. Confirm Your Prior Depreciation that does not include any section 179 deduction? On my Form 4562- section 179 from 2018 tax return my original purchase(June) is $7000 and the Sept refurb is $300
What to enter here???
Many Thanks in advance
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1. Date Purchased or Acquired ??? Is it June, Sept, or Nov ????
The date the property improvement was completed and 100% usable for it's designed and intended purpose.
2. Next Screen, assumed that that the refurb was not a new Asset so said 'None of the above'
Don't know what "next screen" is, as that could be anything depending on where you are/were in the program.
3. Date first started using it for business (refurb) would be?
The first day a renter "could" have physically moved into the program and declared it their home.
4. Confirm Your Prior Depreciation that does not include any section 179 deduction? On my Form 4562- section 179 from 2018 tax return my original purchase(June) is $7000 and the Sept refurb is $300
What to enter here???
Original purchase of what for $7000? You go the entire rental property for that price? Highly doubtful, but I can't rule it out if it was something like a tax auction where you got it.
On the 2019 IRS Form 4562 for that specific asset, add together the amounts in the "Prior depr" column and the "current year depr" column to get the total amount of prior year (pre-2020) depreciation already taken on the asset.
If any asset has a number greater than zero in the Section 179 column, then that's wrong. the SEC 179 deduction is not allowed for residential rental real estate. Only the Special Depreciation Allowance is allowed if the asset qualifies for that.
I'm adding some additional info below from a boilerplate I have, as you may find it helpful. I can not stress strong enough that in your first year of dealing with rental property, or your first year dealing with rental property in turboTax, that absolute perfection is not an option. It's an absolute must. Even the tiniest of mistakes will grow exponentially over the years. Then when you catch the error years down the road (usually not until the tax year you sell the property) the cost of fixing it will be high. So if you have more questions or need more clarification, by all means please ask. The more details you can provide to support your question or query, the better.
Rental Property Dates & Numbers That Matter.
Date of Conversion - If this was your primary residence or 2nd home before, then this date is the day AFTER you moved out, or the date you decided to lease the property – whichever is later.
In Service Date - This is the date a renter "could" have moved in. Usually, this date is the day you put the FOR RENT sign in the front yard.
Number of days Rented - the day count for this starts from the first day a renter was contracted to move in, and/or "could" have moved in. That would be your "in service" date or after if you were asked for that. Vacant periods between renters do not count for actual days rented. Please see IRS Publication927 page 17 at https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p527.pdf#en_US_2020_publink1000219175 Read the “Example” in the third column.
Days of Personal Use - This number will be a big fat ZERO. Read the screen. It's asking for the number of days you lived in the property AFTER you converted it to a rental. I seriously doubt (though it is possible) that you lived in the house (or space, if renting a part of your home) as your primary residence, 2nd home, or any other personal use reasons after you converted it to a rental.
Business Use Percentage. 100%. I'll put that in words so there's no doubt I didn't make a typo here. One Hundred Percent. After you converted this property or space to rental use, it was one hundred percent business use. What you used it for prior to the date of conversion doesn't count.
RENTAL PROPERTY ASSETS, MAINTENANCE/CLEANING/REPAIRS DEFINED
Property Improvement.
Property improvements are expenses you incur that Improve, restore, or otherwise “better” the property. Basically, they retain or add value to the property.
Betterments:
Expenses that may result in a betterment to your property include expenses for fixing a pre-existing defect or condition, enlarging or expanding your property, or increasing the capacity, strength, or quality of your property. An example of a pre-existing condition or defect in this context would be something such as foundation repair (slab jacking) or some other, hidden and costly, anomaly.
Restoration:
Expenses that may be for restoration include expenses for replacing a substantial structural part of your property, repairing damage to your property after you properly adjusted the basis of your property as a result of a casualty loss, or rebuilding your property to a like-new condition.
Adaptation:
Expenses that may be for adaptation include expenses for altering your property to a use that isn’t consistent with the intended ordinary use of your property when you began renting the property. Adding a wheelchair ramp would be an example.
Expenses for these types of costs are entered in the Assets/Depreciation section and depreciated over time. Property improvements can be done at any time after your initial purchase of the property. It does not matter if it was your residence or a rental at the time of the improvement. It still adds value to the property.
To be classified as a property improvement, two criteria need to be met:
1) The improvement must become "a material part of" the property. For example, remodeling the bathroom, new cabinets or appliances in the kitchen. New carpet. Replacing that old Central Air unit.
2) The improvement must retain or add "real" value to the property. In other words, when the property is appraised by a qualified, certified, licensed property appraiser, he will appraise it at a higher value, than he would have without the improvements.
There are rules that allow you to just flat-out expense and deduct some property improvements instead of capitalizing and depreciating them, if the total cost of the improvement was less than $2,500. It’s referred to as “safe harbor di-minimis” But depending on the specific situation, this may or may not be beneficial. Just be aware that not every property improvement that cost less than $2,500 qualifies for this. If this interest you, the rules can get complex. So a good place to start reading is on the IRS website at https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/tangible-property-final-regulations. The stuff on di-minimis starts about one page down.
Cleaning & Maintenance
Those expenses incurred to maintain the rental property and it's assets in the useable condition the property and/or asset was designed and intended for. Routine cleaning and maintenance expenses are only deductible if they are incurred while the property is classified as a rental. Cleaning and maintenance expenses incurred in the process of preparing the property for rent are not deductible.
Repair
Those expenses incurred to return the property or it's assets to the same useable condition they were in, prior to the event that caused the property or asset to be unusable. Repair expenses incurred are only deductible if incurred while the property is classified as a rental. Repair costs incurred in the process of preparing the property for rent are not deductible.
Additional clarifications: Painting a room does not qualify as a property improvement. While the paint does become “a material part of” the property, from the perspective of a property appraiser, it doesn’t add “real value” to the property.
However, when you do something like convert the garage into a 3rd bedroom for example, making a 2 bedroom house into a 3 bedroom house adds “real value”. Of course, when you convert the garage to a bedroom, you’re going to paint it. But you will include the cost of painting as a part of the property improvement – not an expense separate from it.
Carl,
Many Thanks for your reply and the additional information.
I would like to further clarify on Questions 2 and 4.
Question 2 for the major refurb completed Nov 2018, does this screen shot look correct from TT screen? I don't consider the refurb a 'new' asset
Question 4 on the TT Screen is asking...
After reading this many many times, I am assuming the answer is 7300 based off prior year tax return via CPA (see below)
(Numbers tweaked for privacy concerns)
Assistance is Appreciated many times over.
Thanks
N
I don't consider the refurb a 'new' asset
It does not matter to the IRS or any one else for that matter what you consider it. It's a new asset, as you, and you alone, have never ever used that asset in any business of any type in any way, shape, form or fashion ever, at any time in the past before it was placed in service in what ever year it was placed in service by you, as indicated for that specific asset by the date on the IRS Form 4562 that prints in landscape format and titled "Depreciation and Amortization Report".
Question 4 on the TT Screen is asking...
The screen shot of the 4562 you provided is the one that prints in portrait format and gets filed with the tax return only if required. It is of no use for the "fine details" needed by myself and others that may be attempting to help you. (Unless they're guessing what entry is the refurb and what entry is any other assets.)
For prior year's of depreciation already taken, you have to look at the 2019 IRS Form 4562 that prints in landscape format, and is titled "Depreciation and Amortization Report". To get the total amount of prior depreciation already taken for any one asset, add together the numbers on the 2019 IRS Form 4562 in the "Prior year depr" column and the "current year depr" column. That total is what you will enter on the 2020 tax return for the total of all prior year's depreciation taken on that specific asset.
Take note that any assets for which you took the Special Depreciation allowance will have the amount in the column labeled Special Depreciation Allowance. You won't have anything in the SEC 179 column since residential (unlike commercial) rental assets can't use SEC 179.
You'll also have another IRS Form 4562 that prints in landscape format for that same property, but it's titled "Alternative Minimum Tax Depreciation Report". You only need data off that one if the program specifically asks you for any AMT amounts.
Numbers tweaked for privacy concerns
Changing numbers for privacy concerns (in this case) makes no sense. Are you of the assumption that I can figure out who you are, where you live, and possibly steal your money based on a dollar figure amount? While prudence and a little bit of paranoia are not a bad thing, especially in today's world, by providing actual numbers you have a better chance of getting more accurate feedback. This matters, because of things that can be affect by (and are affected by) income limits and the such. My wife and I made $93,064.55 last year. $17,100 of that was rental income, $16,580.88 was military retirement income and the rest was W-2 income. Of that, $59,932.06 was taxable income. I could care less who knows that in this forum.
This conversation is SO helpful thanks. I knew some of it, but you did a GREAT job of clarifying what constitutes and improvement. 😀
You really need the last depreciation worksheet the CPA did ... call them and kindly ask for it if it is not in the return file you have. Otherwise you will need to look for the form 4562 for each tax year for the info needed on the assets.
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