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Carl
Level 15

I own some rental properties in my personal name, which I actively participate in the management of, but I am not a real estate professional. Every year I fill out a 1040 and Schedule E. I just got an EIN for banking purposes. Will the EIN not go anywher

Now for that promised partnership stuff:
There are friendships and relationships. But the one ship that rarely makes port is a partnership. (Dave Ramsey – Ramsey Solutions, LLC)  I myself have never been in a partnership. But I do know many who have, and my “experience” while not personal, is based on the horror stories from others who have experienced them.

Are you married? Is your business partner married? What happens if you or that partner dies? What do you think happens to that partner’s share in the partnership? Do they have a will? Weather they do or not don’t matter. But if not addressed, your “new” partner or partners can and usually will ruin you. Does your deceased partner’s spouse dislike you personally? You think they’re going to “work with you” upon inheriting your deceased partner’s share of the business? What if the deceased partner has three children and their estate is split equally among the kids? Now you have a partnership with four partners. Do you really expect everyone to agree on everything concerning the partnership now? Is one of them under age? Now you have a real nightmare from which you will never awaken. What can be worse than this you ask? Divorce.

What if you partner gets divorced? In a marriage, assets and wealth acquired by one married person, are legally considered assets and wealth of the marriage. So chances are high that the soon to be ex will get half of your partner’s share in the business. Do you think they’re going to cooperate in business decisions that require it? Most likely down the road you’ll get a knock at your front door and upon answering are greeted with, “Hi! My name is Joe Blow and I’m your court appointed bankruptcy attorney. I’m here to list all assets you own and place a dollar value on them per this court order I’m presenting to you. May I come in? Or do I need to present the search warrant too?”  The partner’s soon to be ex will extract their vengeance to ruin your partner, and if that means taking you down too, so be it.

What can your partner do with their share of this partnership? Can then sell, give or gift it, or a portion of it to another weather you like it or not? Piss off your partner enough, and not only will that happen, they’ll put their controlling share of the partnership with someone who despises and hates you more than they do at the moment. Re-read the above about your court appointed bankruptcy lawyer.

What happens if your partner is deployed to Afghanistan for a year or more? Who controls his share of the partnership, and what can that non-owning controller do, and not do?  

What if your partner, for whatever reason, goes into a coma for 6 months or more? Is there someone designated to control their share of the partnership? When does this control start and stop? What if the partner dies while in that coma? Does the controller still have control? If so, why? If not, then who does?

What if in a two person partnership one of the partners wants out? Is there an exit strategy in place? What is it, and what are the legal implications?

What if a partner moves to another city, state or country?

What if you want to buy your partner out? Of course, doing that dissolves the partnership since you can’t have a partnership with only one owner. But still, “what if” you want to buy them out, or they want to buy you out? What requirements and conditions have been agreed to for this possibility?

Since this partnership will consist of rental property, what if a house is destroyed by fire, hurricane, tornado, or other natural disaster? At what point does the partnership take the insurance money without a rebuild and walk away? While on the subject of insurance, make sure it’s the partnership that buys the insurance, and that the partnership is the designated payee of any insurance payout…. not the partners.

As you can see, there are a lot of “what if’s” to consider when establishing a partnership. I've only listed a few of the more than one hundred I can probably come up with in the next hour. It’s practically impossible to plan for them all too. That’s why partnerships rarely succeed. Now I’m not trying to discourage you from such an arrangement. I just want all partners to be aware of all the “what if’s” and to plan *in writing* for as many of them as all the partners can think of.  What all partner’s need to do is sit down and come up with a list of “what if’s”. Don’t worry about the solution at that time. All you’re doing at this point is establishing that “what if” list, and that’s it. One or more partners may have a unique personal situation and will come up with a “what if” that nobody has ever thought of or had to consider before. So make that list.
Next, the partners sit down with a lawyer (not a tax lawyer either) to go over the list and to formulate a partnership agreement which includes and addresses all the “what if’s”, that will stand up in court should that need ever arise. What I think works best is to sit down with a lawyer that specializes in wills and estates. For the most part, they’ve seen it all when it comes to this stuff, and can probably contribute a few “what if’s” none of you have thought about yet. Everything gets put in writing as a part of the partnership agreement, and that can help the partnership to succeed. It doesn’t guarantee it will succeed of course. But doing this will significantly increase the likelihood that it will. More importantly, it has a better chance of keeping friendships intact should the partnership hit an iceberg and sink.
Now, once the partnership is established, all the “what if’s” you can think of are covered, and everything has been agreed to “in writing”, that’s when you take all your paperwork and visit the CPA or tax lawyer. Not one minute before either.
From what I’ve seen, very few who use this approach will actually make it to the tax attorney. They just can’t agree on all the “what if’s”. So if your partnership is going to fail, let it fail “before” it’s formed, and not after.  Keeps those friendships and family relationships afloat and more intact that way.

I own some rental properties in my personal name, which I actively participate in the management of, but I am not a real estate professional. Every year I fill out a 1040 and Schedule E. I just got an EIN for banking purposes. Will the EIN not go anywher

Got it so I guess what I'm asking is, your second EIN that you have just in case you have to issue a 1099 miscellaneous, do you put that on your taxes anywhere? I am assuming no. Also If you had to issue a 1099 miscellaneous would you then put it on your taxes anywhere? I am still guessing no since there is no where on the schedule E to put it?

I own some rental properties in my personal name, which I actively participate in the management of, but I am not a real estate professional. Every year I fill out a 1040 and Schedule E. I just got an EIN for banking purposes. Will the EIN not go anywher

That partnership information is very helpful and very scary 🙂 upon either of our death we have a arranged for certain people who will inherit the equity shares but not the management shares of the LLC. The management shares will be split between any other managers (which is just us for now).
Now if there was a divorce for example his wife may receive half of the management shares he owns. As well as half of the equity shares. Of course since him and I would still have the majority we can vote to force her out of her management shares, but not her Equity shares since they have real value. Equity shares would have to be bought out. I do not know if the operating agreement states that we can force people to sell their Equity shares. I don't think it does.
Yes I was very concerned about the partnership.
There are a million things that can go wrong. My big goal that partner and we haven't worked on it too much is to add something to the operating agreement that allows for dispute resolution if voting fails.
Carl
Level 15

I own some rental properties in my personal name, which I actively participate in the management of, but I am not a real estate professional. Every year I fill out a 1040 and Schedule E. I just got an EIN for banking purposes. Will the EIN not go anywher

You are correct. For my rentals, there's nowhere to put the EIN on the SCH E and it's not needed. Remember, the IRS issued me that EIN, and they know exactly what SSN that EIN is tied to. So when I claim it as a rental expense on the SCH E, there's no problem. If you'll recall also, there is a spot in the program when working through the rental section, which specifically asks if you issued any 1099's for rental related work. I've never had to click YES for that as of yet. But it's there, and I assume that "somehow" it's dealt with appropriately on the tax return, should one have the need to click YES on that question in the program.

I own some rental properties in my personal name, which I actively participate in the management of, but I am not a real estate professional. Every year I fill out a 1040 and Schedule E. I just got an EIN for banking purposes. Will the EIN not go anywher

Great carl! Thanks for all your help. I was worried because people said "if you do not put your EIN on your taxas anywhere you are going to get a letter from the IRS and probably increase your chances of getting audited." Of course I was confused because knowing I do a Schedule E for Real Estate I had no place to put an EIN. I fill out my Taxes honestly but I don't feel like dealing with the big A word, "audit."
Thanks again for the great information.
Happy 4th!
Carl
Level 15

I own some rental properties in my personal name, which I actively participate in the management of, but I am not a real estate professional. Every year I fill out a 1040 and Schedule E. I just got an EIN for banking purposes. Will the EIN not go anywher

Keep in mind also, that all of this information you've received in the forum from all users is somewhat state specific. Each state has it's own laws concerning partnerships, as well as rentals. My experience is in FL, and the state puts out a book every few years called "Landlord/Tenant Rights" (Barnes & Noble) which covers practically every possible scenario one could think of. It doesn't include just landlord tenant stuff, but also covers situations such as yours where the legal "landlord" is a non-breathing non-living entity. Good reading and highly informative.

I own some rental properties in my personal name, which I actively participate in the management of, but I am not a real estate professional. Every year I fill out a 1040 and Schedule E. I just got an EIN for banking purposes. Will the EIN not go anywher

So as a follow up to this, I'm just curious: 

 

1. Myself and my life partner (at the time), just business partner now, own a residential home with ourselves on the mortgage. We rent this property out through a popular short term rental company

 

2. We, along with one other business partner, own another rental income that is owned by the LLC, and is also rented out through a short term rental company. 

 

I'm wondering if we can run the income and expenses from the personally owned property legally, through the LLC and if so, besides declaring the income and expenses on the LLC side, what the other tax/legal implications would be. 


Thanks in advance for any help you can offer 🙂 

Carl
Level 15

I own some rental properties in my personal name, which I actively participate in the management of, but I am not a real estate professional. Every year I fill out a 1040 and Schedule E. I just got an EIN for banking purposes. Will the EIN not go anywher

I guess I should make it clear that for my personal properties I do not want to use a Schedule C I want to continue to use the schedule E.
Bottom line here.

Income from residential rental property is reported on SCH E *no* *matter* *what*. For a multi-member LLC (which files an IRS Form 1065 Partnership Return) it's reported on SCH E as a part of the 1065 return. The partnership will then issue each partner a K-1 that each partner will use to complete their personal 1040 tax return. (doesn't matter if it's a 1040 joint return either). All the rental stuff from the K-1 will end up on page 2 of the SCH E on the 1040 personal return.

From the sounds of it I can do that.

It's not like you have a choice in the matter, because you don't.

My other question is I do babiy sit and I do have to fill out a schedule C for, it is for mentally disabled individuals and New York state pays me. Would my Ein have to go on the schedule C which I fill out for that? I know your experience is in rental so you might not know the answer for that question.

Babysitting/care provider income is earned income. (unlike rental income which is passive income). So it gets reported on SCH C as a part of your personal tax return, assuming *YOU* are the *ONLY* owner of the babysitting/care provider business.

Assuming you registered the EIN as a baby sitting service or some kind of care provider, then the EIN is used on the SCH C where you will report that specific income. Overall, how you registred the EIN really doesn't matter "all that much", because the IRS could actually care less - so long as you report your business income and pay your taxes on it. Note that with the SCH C income, in addition to the "regular" income tax you will pay, you will also pay the additional 15.3% self-employment tax on that specific income too.

It's also possible the provider income might be exempt from reporting and taxes too, since the state pays it to you. But I don't know how that works in NY since I'm not at all familiar with NY state tax laws. You might want to ask a tax professional in that state if you need to even report it, and if so is it actually taxable income. I myself wouldn't have a clue on that.

 

I own some rental properties in my personal name, which I actively participate in the management of, but I am not a real estate professional. Every year I fill out a 1040 and Schedule E. I just got an EIN for banking purposes. Will the EIN not go anywher

@Carl Hi Carl, you are very knowledge on this topic of rentals. I have a question that I can't seem to find the answer.

 

I want to buy rental property in my name and report the income/loss on schedule E exactly as you recommend on multiple posts. However, I would like to use a business name (DBA) to collect rent. I don't need a separate EIN for the DBA and I can keep using my SSN. The DBA is just to open a business checking account and keep finance of the rental property separate from the personal one. So my tenant pays the rent to "ABC business" and I pay the mortgage from the "ABC business" checking account to the property in my name.

 

My question is, are there any tricks or gotchas in reporting all the expenses from the DBA business on the schedule E?  

Carl
Level 15

I own some rental properties in my personal name, which I actively participate in the management of, but I am not a real estate professional. Every year I fill out a 1040 and Schedule E. I just got an EIN for banking purposes. Will the EIN not go anywher

What are you expecting to gain by using a business name? For starters, a "business account" with a bank generally is not free. For those that do offer "free business checking" it does not pay interest on the account.  Just do what I did. I opened a physically separate personal checking account in my and my wife's name (since we both own the property) and all rental transactions run through that account. I don't have any of those bull crap limits on transactions or check fees. Heck, even my checks are free if I ever get to a point where I need to get more.

So I ask again, why do you want to use a business name? I see absolutely nothing advantageous to that.

 

I own some rental properties in my personal name, which I actively participate in the management of, but I am not a real estate professional. Every year I fill out a 1040 and Schedule E. I just got an EIN for banking purposes. Will the EIN not go anywher

The business checking account is to look more professional I guess. The tenants can write checks for their rent to the business name rather than my own name. I'm not doing this to hide my name from the property. I realize that with some digging anyone can always find out who owns the property.

 

The person who is showing the house to the tenant can say that they work for "ABC business" and so that's where the rent goes. 

 

There are business accounts with a lot of free services so getting a good account is probably not a problem.

natashka97
Returning Member

I own some rental properties in my personal name, which I actively participate in the management of, but I am not a real estate professional. Every year I fill out a 1040 and Schedule E. I just got an EIN for banking purposes. Will the EIN not go anywher

I have a dozen or so rentals. So which is best that I should treat it like a business, and run it through a schedule C, and pay 15,3% SE taxes or through Schedule E, as an investment? It seems that having to pay Self Employment tax would be greater, than my schedule E expenses.   Are there any advantages of being 67 y.o., or that my expenses reduce my income a whole lot?

RD

DaveF1006
Expert Alumni

I own some rental properties in my personal name, which I actively participate in the management of, but I am not a real estate professional. Every year I fill out a 1040 and Schedule E. I just got an EIN for banking purposes. Will the EIN not go anywher

Please refer to this Turbo Tax link to determine the advantages and disadvantages of filing each. According to the IRS in this link, Schedule C is filed when other services are performed in conjunction with the property or if your rental  "is part of a trade or business as a real estate dealer." 

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I own some rental properties in my personal name, which I actively participate in the management of, but I am not a real estate professional. Every year I fill out a 1040 and Schedule E. I just got an EIN for banking purposes. Will the EIN not go anywher

I believe the actual IRS words to distinguish this is "Materially Participate" aka provides services as in a hotel style and "Real Estate Professional" aka how much time is invested in conducting the rental business and you do it yourself no property management doing it for you.  The average rental period can be a factor too in determining the above.  

shomota
New Member

I own some rental properties in my personal name, which I actively participate in the management of, but I am not a real estate professional. Every year I fill out a 1040 and Schedule E. I just got an EIN for banking purposes. Will the EIN not go anywher

Absolutely horrendous advice!!  

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