my student has tuition and fee + books=9155,
total tax free grants scholarship=7948,
room and board +laptop =8433
student loan=2227
9155-7948=1207 can be used for AOTC,
AQEE for 529 =8433, so I can withraw 8433 tax free from my 529.
if I include $2793 grant scholarship in student gross income, then, I can get $4k expenses to claim AOTC,
Is my 529 AQEE still 8433 or will be reduced to 8433-2793=5640?
You'll need to sign in or create an account to connect with an expert.
Q. If I include $2793 grant scholarship in student gross income, then, can I get $4k expenses to claim AOTC?
A. Yes. That's exactly how the scholarship as income loophole works.
Q. Is my 529 AQEE still 8433?
A. Yes.
Q. Or will be reduced to 8433-2793=5640?
A. No. The tax free scholarship amount of $2793 shifted to taxable scholarship. $2793 of expenses shifted (from being allocated to tax free scholarship) to the AOTC. Nothing happened to change the 529 AQEE.
AOTC - American Opportunity Tax (Tuition) Credit
AQEE - Adjusted Qualified Educational Expenses
Q. I, the parent, choose to treat $3k of my student's grants as taxable income, to claim more AOTC in my tax return and my student does not need to file tax return based what you told me. if my son does not file a tax return, how does the IRS know these information between me and him, and know my son is not required to file a tax return?
A. They don't know. You just hope that you can explain it away if you hear (unlikely) from the IRS. Some people recommend that you have the student file a tax return, even though it is not required, to document his reporting the scholarship income.
Q. Where, in TT, do I make choice to treat part of student's grants as taxable income?
A. I assume you entered the scholarship at the 1098-T screen (box 5). The interview will ask if any was used for room and board, answer yes. Then enter the amount you want to be taxable ($3K, in your case), in the pop up box. R&B are not "qualified educational expenses". So, this is how you tell TT that it is taxable. Note the wording at that screen “or other expenses”. You didn’t have to literally use the scholarship for R&B.
The interview can get complicated, particularly when you're also entering a 1099-Q.
There are a couple of workarounds. First, just don't enter the 1099-Q.
You can just not report the 1099-Q, at all, if your student-beneficiary has sufficient educational expenses, including room & board (even if he lives at home) to cover the distribution. When the box 1 amount on form 1099-Q is fully covered by expenses, TurboTax will enter nothing about the 1099-Q on the actual tax forms. But, it will prepare a 1099-Q worksheet for your records.
References:
Second, when you enter the 1098-T, reduce the amount of scholarship, in box 5, by the amount the student will be claiming as income ($3K, in your case). Lying to TurboTax to get it to do what you want does not constitute lying to the IRS. You can skip the questions about scholarship and room & board.
Q. If I include $2793 grant scholarship in student gross income, then, can I get $4k expenses to claim AOTC?
A. Yes. That's exactly how the scholarship as income loophole works.
Q. Is my 529 AQEE still 8433?
A. Yes.
Q. Or will be reduced to 8433-2793=5640?
A. No. The tax free scholarship amount of $2793 shifted to taxable scholarship. $2793 of expenses shifted (from being allocated to tax free scholarship) to the AOTC. Nothing happened to change the 529 AQEE.
AOTC - American Opportunity Tax (Tuition) Credit
AQEE - Adjusted Qualified Educational Expenses
thanks a lot!
one more question, the 529 AQEE of 8433 are partially paid by student loan of 2227, should I reduce the 529 AQEE of 8433 by loan of 2227, so my tax free 529 AQEE becomes 6206?
Q. The 529 AQEE of 8433 are partially paid by student loan of 2227, should I reduce the 529 AQEE of 8433 by loan of 2227, so my tax free 529 AQEE becomes 6206?
A. No. The student loan is irrelevant and can be ignored. It would be no different than if grandma had given you $2227 to help pay for school. The are both just "your money". One is borrowed money and the other is gifted money.
great thanks!
I, the parent, if choose to treat $3k of my student's grants as taxable income, to claim more AOTC in my tax return and my student does not need to file tax return based what you told me. if my son does not file a tax return, I wonder how the IRS know these information between me and him, and know my son is not required to file a tax return?
Dear sir
I tested using TT to do tax return, after I input the 1098T and 1099-Q, there is no way I can make choice to treat part of student's grants as taxable income. Do you know where to find the choice in TT? thanks!
Q. I, the parent, choose to treat $3k of my student's grants as taxable income, to claim more AOTC in my tax return and my student does not need to file tax return based what you told me. if my son does not file a tax return, how does the IRS know these information between me and him, and know my son is not required to file a tax return?
A. They don't know. You just hope that you can explain it away if you hear (unlikely) from the IRS. Some people recommend that you have the student file a tax return, even though it is not required, to document his reporting the scholarship income.
Q. Where, in TT, do I make choice to treat part of student's grants as taxable income?
A. I assume you entered the scholarship at the 1098-T screen (box 5). The interview will ask if any was used for room and board, answer yes. Then enter the amount you want to be taxable ($3K, in your case), in the pop up box. R&B are not "qualified educational expenses". So, this is how you tell TT that it is taxable. Note the wording at that screen “or other expenses”. You didn’t have to literally use the scholarship for R&B.
The interview can get complicated, particularly when you're also entering a 1099-Q.
There are a couple of workarounds. First, just don't enter the 1099-Q.
You can just not report the 1099-Q, at all, if your student-beneficiary has sufficient educational expenses, including room & board (even if he lives at home) to cover the distribution. When the box 1 amount on form 1099-Q is fully covered by expenses, TurboTax will enter nothing about the 1099-Q on the actual tax forms. But, it will prepare a 1099-Q worksheet for your records.
References:
Second, when you enter the 1098-T, reduce the amount of scholarship, in box 5, by the amount the student will be claiming as income ($3K, in your case). Lying to TurboTax to get it to do what you want does not constitute lying to the IRS. You can skip the questions about scholarship and room & board.
Thanks a lots! you are so great. I really appreciate your kindness.
May I ask a question on 529 distribution? the 970 pub says
"The expense for room and board qualifies only to
the extent that it isn't more than the greater of the fol
lowing two amounts.
a. The allowance for room and board, as determined
by the school, that was included in the cost of at
tendance (for federal financial aid purposes) for a
particular academic period and living arrangement
of the student.
b. The actual amount charged if the student is resid
ing in housing owned or operated by the school."
In university website's COA, the R&B is 7664 for his major of 2024 fall.
my son is residing in hose owned by school, the actual charge is 7443.
can I withdraw tax free 7660 from my 529?
Q. In university website's COA, the R&B is 7664 for his major of 2024 fall.
my son is residing in house owned by school, the actual charge is 7443.
can I withdraw tax free $7660 from my 529?
A. No. You can only withdraw $7443, tax free.
Thanks for reply.
In additional to eat in school dinning halls, my son sometimes eat in fast food and restaurants. These outside dinning expense is more than the difference ($221) between school allowance $7664, and school's acutal R&B charge $7443. Can the difference $221 be treated as qualified 529 expenses.
My son's university is just 30min drive away from my house, so my son comes back to live with us during weekends ( even his R&B plan includes weekends). School's COA lists $6166 expense for student who live with parents and commute to campus. Can the expense living at home be treated as qualified 529 expenses?
Q. Can the outside dinning expense difference $221 be treated as qualified 529 expenses?
A. Yes.
Q. Can the expense living at home be treated as qualified 529 expenses?
A. Food ("board"), yes. Lodging ("room"), no, since it overlaps the on campus "room" cost.
Thanks!
a question of curiosity:
I, the parent, is the recipient of 529 distribution, so I will receive the 1099-Q with my name and SSN on it. If I made mistake, and the 529 distribution exceeding the AQEE, then the excess part will be taxable. My question is, should this taxable 529 distribution be reported in student's tax return or parent tax return?
another question, if my son's income is $3.5k work study + $3k taxable scholarship used for AOTC credit, so he is not required to file federal tax return. but $6.5k is more than Michigan dependent's allowance of $1.5k, so he has to file a state tax return. But in the state tax return, you need to enter AGI from federal tax return form. Can my son just fill a federal tax return without actually sending it to IRS, then enter the federal AGI in state taxt return?
Q. My question is, should this taxable 529 distribution be reported in student's tax return or parent tax return?
A. Parent's return, since you got the 1099-Q. You were the "recipient" of the distribution.
Q. Can my son just fill out a federal tax return without actually sending it to IRS, then enter the federal AGI in state tax return?
A. Yes. When using TurboTax (TT), you must do it that way to get TT to do a state return. Since you are going to have to fill out a federal return, you should have him file it to document the reporting of the scholarship income.
Q. If I made mistake, and the 529 distribution exceeding the AQEE, will the excess part be taxable?
A. Yes, but only the earnings portion of the excess. See example below.
_______________________________________________________________________________________
Qualified Tuition Plans (QTP 529 Plans) Distributions
General Discussion
It’s complicated.
For 529 plans, there is an “owner” (usually the parent), and a “beneficiary” (usually the student dependent). The "recipient" of the distribution can be either the owner or the beneficiary depending on who the money was sent to. When the money goes directly from the Qualified Tuition Plan (QTP) to the school, the student is the "recipient". The distribution will be reported on IRS form 1099-Q.
The 1099-Q gets reported on the recipient's return.** The recipient's name & SS# will be on the 1099-Q.
Even though the 1099-Q is going on the student's return, the 1098-T should go on the parent's return, so you can claim the education credit. You can do this because he is your dependent.
You can and should claim the tuition credit before claiming the 529 plan earnings exclusion. The American Opportunity Credit (AOC or AOTC) is 100% of the first $2000 of tuition and 25% of the next $2000 ($2500 maximum credit). The educational expenses he claims for the 1099-Q should be reduced by the amount of educational expenses you claim for the credit.
But be aware, you can not double dip. You cannot count the same tuition money, for the tuition credit, that gets him an exclusion from the taxability of the earnings (interest) on the 529 plan. Since the credit is more generous; use as much of the tuition as is needed for the credit and the rest for the interest exclusion. Another special rule allows you to claim the tuition credit regardless of whose money was used to pay the tuition.
In addition, there is another rule that says the 10% penalty is waived if he was unable to cover the 529 plan withdrawal with educational expenses either because he got scholarships or the expenses were used (by him or the parents) to claim the credits. He'll have to pay tax on the earnings, at his lower tax rate (subject to the “kiddie tax”), but not the penalty.
Total qualified expenses (including room & board) less amounts paid by scholarship less amounts used to claim the Tuition credit equals the amount you can use to claim the earnings exclusion on the 1099-Q.
Example:
$10,000 in educational expenses(including room & board which is only qualified for the 1099-Q)
-$3000 paid by tax free scholarship***
-$4000 used to claim the American Opportunity credit
=$3000 Can be used against the 1099-Q (on the recipient’s return)
Box 1 of the 1099-Q is $5000
Box 2 is $2800
3000/5000=60% of the earnings are tax free; 40% are taxable
40% x 2800= $1120
There is $1120 of taxable income (on the recipient’s return)
**Alternatively; you can just not report the 1099-Q, at all, if your student-beneficiary has sufficient educational expenses, including room & board (even if he lives at home) to cover the distribution. You would still have to do the math to see if there were enough expenses left over for you to claim the tuition credit. Again, you cannot double dip! When the box 1 amount on form 1099-Q is fully covered by expenses, TurboTax will enter nothing about the 1099-Q on the actual tax forms. But, it will prepare a 1099-Q worksheet for your records, in case of an IRS inquiry.
On form 1099-Q, instructions to the recipient reads: "Nontaxable distributions from CESAs and QTPs are not required to be reported on your income tax return. You must determine the taxability of any distribution."
***Another alternative is have the student report some of his scholarship as taxable income, to free up some expenses for the 1099-Q and/or tuition credit. Most people come out better having the scholarship taxable before the 529 earnings. A student, with no other income, can have up to $13,850 of taxable scholarship (in 2023) and still pay no income tax.
Dear sir
"you should have him file it to document the reporting of the scholarship income. "
I am sorry I do not understand it very well. Do you mean my son need to file his federal return in order to document the reporting of scholarship income? My main purpose is that my son no need to file a federal tax return, so his income will not be included when caculating Premium tax credit of my family healthcare. his income does not exceed federal tax filling requirements, but exceeds the state tax allowance, so he has to file a state tax return. The state tax form MI-1040 requires input from federal tax return AGI, I hope my son can just fill his federal tax return without filing it, get the federal AGI amount so he can finihsh his state tax return, then just file his state tax return.
because TT do not allow you to do state tax return alone, can my son just fill federal tax return in TT, then fill out state tax return, then, in the end, only efile state tax return, no efile federal tax return?
Still have questions?
Make a postAsk questions and learn more about your taxes and finances.
Kris_at_ORP
New Member
xu3
Level 1
xu3
Level 1
nbgoku
Level 1
TaxInTaxOut
New Member
Did the information on this page answer your question?
You have clicked a link to a site outside of the TurboTax Community. By clicking "Continue", you will leave the Community and be taken to that site instead.