efiling form 4852 (Substitute W-2) (foreign pension)

[darla1]

Can my tax returns be e-filed if form 4852 (W-2 substitute) (for foreign pension) is included?  

I am seeing conflicting comments about this.

I would rather pay taxes on my pension than have to paper file with form 8833 again.  I paper copy mailed my 2019 taxes last September and they still have not been processed.  

Thanks!

[macuser_22]

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@darla1 wrote:

Can my tax returns be e-filed if form 4852 (W-2 substitute) (for foreign pension) is included?  

I am seeing conflicting comments about this.

I would rather pay taxes on my pension than have to paper file with form 8833 again.  I paper copy mailed my 2019 taxes last September and they still have not been processed.  

Thanks!

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No but a 4852 substitute 1099-R per the IRS 1040 instructions that say to report it on the 1040 line 5a and 5b.

Only a 1099-R can put it there.   In the 1099-R interview select a substitute 1099-R.

IRS instructions page 22.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040gi.pdf

Foreign retirement plans.If you were a beneficiary of a foreign retirement plan, you may have to report the undis-tributed income earned in your plan. However, if you were the beneficiary of a Canadian registered retirement plan, see Rev. Proc. 2014-55, 2014-44 I.R.B. 753, available at IRS.gov/irb/2014-44_IRB#RP2014-55, to find out if you can elect to defer tax on the undis-tributed income.Report distributions from foreign pension plans on lines 5a and 5b.:

[ipc1]

Does the substitute 1099-R selection process result in the generation of the Form 4852?

[macuser_22]

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@ipc1 wrote:

Does the substitute 1099-R selection process result in the generation of the Form 4852?

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Yes but why would you need a substitute?

Is there a problem with the original 1099-R that that the insurer refused to correct?  

That is the only reason for substitute and you must include a statement of the error and that the issuer refused to correct  it.

[ipc1]

That’s what was recommended above, "In the 1099-R interview select a substitute 1099-R."

[macuser_22]

Oh -- for   foreign pension.  Yes that is how to report it.

[ipc1]

Please clarify for the foreign pension, “Yes that is how to report it.”

[macuser_22]

Enter it in the 1099R sections and select "substitute 1099-R".   It will ask for an explanation statement.   Say that it is a foreign pension and provide the details.

You can only paper file and not e-file.

Enter a 1099-R here:

Federal Taxes,
Wages & Income
(I'll choose what I work on - if that screen comes up)
Retirement Plans & Social Security,
IRA, 401(k), Pension Plan Withdrawals (1099-R).

OR  Use the "Tools" menu (if online version left side) and then "Search Topics" for "1099-R" which will take you to the same place.

[ipc1]

This is my confusion, it does seem some users are e-filing for foreign pensions using the “substitute 1099-R”, and using a dummy payer id that works for TT e-filing. See for instance:

 Solved: Thanks John-I prefer the 1099s for the info & the ... (intuit.com)

[macuser_22]

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@ipc1 wrote:

This is my confusion, it does seem some users are e-filing for foreign pensions using the “substitute 1099-R”, and using a dummy payer id that works for TT e-filing. See for instance:

 Solved: Thanks John-I prefer the 1099s for the info & the ... (intuit.com)

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You can try but the IRS checks the TIN  and if not valid can reject the return.

[ipc1]

Before submitting e-file can TurboTax confirm that 99-0999999 will be accepted by the IRS for the Payer Federal ID entry?

[LinaJ2020]

Yes you can.  Here are the steps:

In TurboTax online,

• Sign in to your account and select Pick up where you left off
• At the right upper corner, type in 1099r, then Enter
• Select Jump to 1099r
• Follow prompts
• Next screen, Choose your bank or brokerage, select I'll type it in myself
• On the screen Tell Us Which 1099-R You Have, check the box I need to prepare a substitute 1099-R and follow the prompts.  

As to the Federal ID, try entering nine 9s.  If electronic errors occur due to 1099-R data entry, enter the pension under Miscellaneous income, see instructions below. As long as the IRS has the pension reported and included in total income, it is not problematic. 

• To your left, select Federal
• From the top, select Wages and Income
• Scroll down to last section -Less Common Income -select Miscellaneous Income, 1099-A, 1099-C- Start 
• Next screen, scroll down to Other Reportable Income- Start
• Follow prompts

If it is not taxable to you, to enter the exemption, follow here:

• report your full amount as instructed above. Then enter the treaty exempt amount as a negative amount (e.g. -5000) under Other Reportable Income as instructed above.  
• Download and fill in a Form 8833 from IRS to claim an exception.  https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8833.pdf

International tax treaty-related issues are out of scope for advice.  You are suggested to consult a specialized professional for verification.  This pension amount will show on line 5 of your Form 1040.  If it's taxable, it will show on line 5b.  If it's not taxable, it will show on line 5a for reporting purposes. 

@darla1

[darla1]

But then we are right back to where we started (and my original question): because if you include form 8833 the returns must be paper-filed with TurboTax.  Is there any way to e-file a return which includes a foreign pension?  Sorry to keep on about this but paper filing was a disaster for me last year.  My 2019 return has still not been processed.  

[LinaJ2020]

If it is not taxable to you, you will have to paper-file to show IRS the Form 8833, unfortunately.  If you really want to e-file, you can do so without the Form 8833 but most likely the IRS will send you a correspondence.  You will then need to send back the Form 8833 with explanation. 

[macuser_22]

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@darla1 wrote:

But then we are right back to where we started (and my original question): because if you include form 8833 the returns must be paper-filed with TurboTax.  Is there any way to e-file a return which includes a foreign pension?  Sorry to keep on about this but paper filing was a disaster for me last year.  My 2019 return has still not been processed.  

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Unfortunately the only way that I know to meet the IRS requirement of placing a foreign pension on the 1040 line 5a & 5b is with a substitute 1099-R with an explanation statement..     I do not believe a substitute 1099-R can be e-filed.

I do not believe any 8833 form is required to simply report a foreign pension unless a treaty reduces the taxable amount of the pension.

(Reporting as miscellaneous income as suggested above does not meet the requirement.)

Per IRS 1040 instructions:

Foreign retirement plans.If you were a beneficiary of a foreign retirement plan, you may have to report the undis-tributed income earned in your plan. However, if you were the beneficiary of a Canadian registered retirement plan, see Rev. Proc. 2014-55, 2014-44 I.R.B. 753, available at IRS.gov/irb/2014-44_IRB#RP2014-55, to find out if you can elect to defer tax on the undis-tributed income.Report distributions from foreign pension plans on lines 5a and 5b.