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EbonyL
New Member

Do I need to pay my quarterly taxes on 4/15 if I just started working as self employed last week? How do I know how much to pay?

I just became self employed as a general transcriptionist last week and found out that I will need to pay quarterly taxes with one being due on 4/15. I haven't been paid anything yet from the company that I just started working with. How do I know how much I will need to pay and how do I pay it? I have 4 dependents that I file every year on my tax return. Will me paying quarterly taxes stop me from being able to file them for next year's tax return and if so will I get penalized for it? I'm very new to this self employment and even more confused. I just want to make sure I'm doing everything right because I'd hate to owe the IRS any money if I can help it. Thank you for any and all advice. I greatly appreciate it. 

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Accepted Solutions
Belling
New Member

Do I need to pay my quarterly taxes on 4/15 if I just started working as self employed last week? How do I know how much to pay?

If you just became self employed recently (within this tax quarter) you will not be responsible for paying Quarterly Estimated Taxes for this quarter. You will be expected to start making your quarterly estimated tax payments by the next quarter, due June 15, 2016.

  • You can pay your quarterly taxes by mailing a Form 1040-ES to the IRS with your payment, or by using the IRS' EFTPS system. Using the Electronic Federal Tax Payment System (EFTPS) is the easiest way to pay your federal taxes for individuals as well as businesses. Make ALL of your federal tax payments including federal tax deposits (FTDs), installment agreement and estimated tax payments using EFTPS. If it is easier to pay your estimated taxes weekly, bi-weekly, monthly, etc. you can, as long as you have paid enough in by the end of the quarter. Using EFTPS, you can access a history of your payments, so you know how much and when you made your estimated tax payments.
  • You can also pay directly online at the IRS website linked below.  Direct pay from your bank account is free.  Payment by credit/debit card has a service fee. If you pay using one of these features, it will ask you what type of tax form you are paying.  For an estimated tax payment, be sure to select 1040ES in the menu.  Be sure to indicate the tax year correctly if asked to specify the tax year you are making payments for.

https://www.irs.gov/Payments

  • In the future, once your business is up and running, you will be able to use TurboTax to create your Estimated Tax payment vouchers for the coming year (if you choose to), at the end of filing your tax return for the current year. You can then mail those forms in to the IRS. TurboTax will provide you with the address for mailing when the forms are created.
TurboTax uses the safe-harbor method by basing your estimated tax on either 90% of your expected tax for 2016 or 110% of the taxes shown on your 2015 return. Even if you choose not to use TurboTax to calculate your Estimated Tax payments, this is the method you should use when calculating your estimated taxes for the coming year. 

Payment Period                              Due Date 
January 1 - March 31, 2016       April 18, 2016
April 1 - May 31, 2016               June 15, 2016  
June 1 - August 31, 2016          September 15, 2016
Sept.1 - December 31, 2016    January 17, 2017

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3 Replies
Belling
New Member

Do I need to pay my quarterly taxes on 4/15 if I just started working as self employed last week? How do I know how much to pay?

If you just became self employed recently (within this tax quarter) you will not be responsible for paying Quarterly Estimated Taxes for this quarter. You will be expected to start making your quarterly estimated tax payments by the next quarter, due June 15, 2016.

  • You can pay your quarterly taxes by mailing a Form 1040-ES to the IRS with your payment, or by using the IRS' EFTPS system. Using the Electronic Federal Tax Payment System (EFTPS) is the easiest way to pay your federal taxes for individuals as well as businesses. Make ALL of your federal tax payments including federal tax deposits (FTDs), installment agreement and estimated tax payments using EFTPS. If it is easier to pay your estimated taxes weekly, bi-weekly, monthly, etc. you can, as long as you have paid enough in by the end of the quarter. Using EFTPS, you can access a history of your payments, so you know how much and when you made your estimated tax payments.
  • You can also pay directly online at the IRS website linked below.  Direct pay from your bank account is free.  Payment by credit/debit card has a service fee. If you pay using one of these features, it will ask you what type of tax form you are paying.  For an estimated tax payment, be sure to select 1040ES in the menu.  Be sure to indicate the tax year correctly if asked to specify the tax year you are making payments for.

https://www.irs.gov/Payments

  • In the future, once your business is up and running, you will be able to use TurboTax to create your Estimated Tax payment vouchers for the coming year (if you choose to), at the end of filing your tax return for the current year. You can then mail those forms in to the IRS. TurboTax will provide you with the address for mailing when the forms are created.
TurboTax uses the safe-harbor method by basing your estimated tax on either 90% of your expected tax for 2016 or 110% of the taxes shown on your 2015 return. Even if you choose not to use TurboTax to calculate your Estimated Tax payments, this is the method you should use when calculating your estimated taxes for the coming year. 

Payment Period                              Due Date 
January 1 - March 31, 2016       April 18, 2016
April 1 - May 31, 2016               June 15, 2016  
June 1 - August 31, 2016          September 15, 2016
Sept.1 - December 31, 2016    January 17, 2017
Carl
Level 15

Do I need to pay my quarterly taxes on 4/15 if I just started working as self employed last week? How do I know how much to pay?

You are required to pay self-employment tax to the IRS (and your state separately if your state taxes personal income) for each quarter your business receives income. Now the date of your post is "2 weeks ago" and with today being Jun 15th, that means you were "open for business" sometime the last week of May. Therefore it's not possible for your business to have been paid any income for the first quarter. Take note also that quarterly tax payments are not due when you may think (every three months). The IRS schedule for 2019 quarterly taxes is as follows

Apr 15, 2019 (not applicable to you since your business did not exist prior to this date.)

Jun 17, 2019

Sept 16, 2019

Jan 15, 2020

Now this IRS has the 1040-ES quarterly payment forms and instructions for figuring and filing your quarterly taxes at https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040es.pdf  Now you can most certainly use that package if you so desire. But in my 15 plus years of being self-employed I've found it to be a major waste of my time. Basically, if you just send the IRS 20% of your gross business earnings each quarter, then come tax filing time you'll be okay. The way it works is like this:  Come tax filing time if what you owe the IRS is less than $1000 or less than 10% of your total tax liablity (whichever is *HIGHER*) then no underpayment penalties will be assessed.

In my 15 years of sending the IRS 20% each quarter I've always been well within $1000. In fact, I almost always get some of it refunded back. In the two years I owed the IRS, the absolute most I had to write the check for at tax filing time was for $472. Since what I owed the IRS was less than $1000, I did not have to pay any underpayment penalties.

I also find it easiest and simplest to pay my quarterly taxes online at www.irs.gov/payments. Just make sure to print your receipt when done and file it with your business records so you have it at tax filing time.

Will me paying quarterly taxes stop me from being able to file them for next year's tax return and if so will I get penalized for it?

No matter what, you are still required to file an annual tax return each and every year you have income from any source. Your business is what the IRS refers to as a "disregarded entity". That designation applies to sole proprietorships (which I suspect is how you're set up) as well as single member LLCs.  I'll include for your reference a list of definitions of the different business types in a separate post in this thread.

When you complete your 2019 tax return next year, you'll be including a SCH C with that return to report all your business income and expenses, as well as those quarterly taxes you would have paid for each quarter your business produced income.

Now there's a lot more questions you have, and I know that. But in an effort to avoid "information overload" I'll wait for you to ask those questions. Last thing I want to do is add to any confusion you may be experiencing.

 

Carl
Level 15

Do I need to pay my quarterly taxes on 4/15 if I just started working as self employed last week? How do I know how much to pay?

Business Type Definitions

Sole Proprietorship – This is a business with one owner, and only own owner. There are no other investors or share holders. This type of business is considered a “disregarded entity” by the IRS. All income and expenses for the business are reported  on SCH C as a physical part of the owner’s personal tax return. Again, a sole proprietorship has only own owner. Depending on what state the business is in, registration is not required at the state level. But it may be required at the county, town, or other level of government below the state. For example, your county may require you to register and obtain a county issued Occupational License, which authorizes you to conduct business only within the jurisdiction of the authority that issued the Occupational License. This is most often required when the county, city or other authority below the state taxes personal income or imposes a tangible property tax on business assets utilized to produce business income.

Single Member LLC - This is a business with one owner, and only own owner. There are no other investors or share holders. This type of business is considered a “disregarded entity” by the IRS. All income and expenses for the business are reported  on SCH C as a physical part of the owner’s personal tax return. Again, a single member LLC has only own owner. This type of business is required to be registered at the state level, weather that state taxes personal income or not.  Additionally, this type of business may also be required to obtain an Occupational License for the county(s), city(s) or other more localized jurisdictions within that state, in which the business will be operating in.

Multi-Member LLC – This is a business with more than one owner.  It’s also the exact same as a Partnership (for tax purposes) This type of business also has to register at the state level, and may also be required to obtain an Occupational License from more localized jurisdictions within the state, in which that business will operate.  This type of business will file its own physically separate tax return with the IRS (and state if applicable) referred to as a Partnership Return, on IRS Form 1065. When completing the 1065 (using TurboTax) the business will issue each individual owner a K-1 reporting the income (or loss) of each owner. Each owner will use this K-1 to complete their personal return. So an owner can’t even start their personal return, until after the 1065 Partnership Return has been complete, filed, and all K-1’s issued to all owners.

In the community property states of Louisiana, Arizona, California, Texas, Washington, Idaho, Nevada, New Mexico, and Wisconsin if you have a multi-member LLC where there are only two owners, those two owners are legally married to each other, and those two owners will be filing a joint 1040 tax return, they have the option of splitting all business income and expenses down the middle and each partner reporting their share of the business income/expenses on a separate SCH C for each tax filer on the joint return. That means your joint 1040 return will have two SCH C’s included with it – one for each owner. But this can present its own problems in the event of divorce, separation. The issues can become even more compounded upon the death of one of the owners. If that deceased owner’s will does not pass all assets to the surviving partner, then that surviving partner can find themselves in a tax hell, not to mention the problems that can arise with the “new” owner or owners.

LLC “Like an S-Corp” – For tax purposes only (and I reiterate: FOR TAX PURPOSES ONLY!!!!!) one can elect to have the IRS treat their single member LLC or multi-member LLC “like an S-Corp” ****FOR TAX PURPOSES ONLY!!!!!****  This means your business is treated like and considered to be a physically separate taxable entity. This is accomplished by filing IRS Form 8332 – Entity Classification Election. This allows you to act as if your single member LLC or multi-member LLC is an S-Corp. But understand that if you want the IRS to treat your LLC like an S-Corp, then the business “must” act like an S-Corp, and follow all the laws, rules and regulations required of an S-Corp by whichever state your LLC is registered in. All business income and expenses is reported on IRS Form 1120-S – Income Tax Return For An S-Corporation. The S-Corp will then issue each owner, investor and/or shareholder a K-1 which they will need before they can even start their personal tax return.  Unlike a single member LLC which is considered a disregarded entity for tax purposes, an LLC that has filed form 8332 – Entity Classification Election  “is” considered and treated like a separately taxable entity.

S-Corp – This type of business is registered at the state level and must conform to the laws, rules, regulations and ordinances of that state which apply to an S-Corp. All business income and expenses is reported on IRS Form 1120-S – Income Tax Return For An S-Corp.  The S-Corp will then issue each owner, investor and/or shareholder a K-1 which they will need before they can even start their personal tax return.  Unlike an LLC which is considered a disregarded entity for tax purposes, an S-Corp  “is” a separately taxable entity, and therefore files its own physically separate tax return and issues K-1’s to all owners, officers, investors and shareholders.

C-Corp - This type of business is registered at the state level and must conform to the laws, rules, regulations and ordinances of that state which apply to a C-Corp. All business income and expenses is reported on IRS Form 1120 – Income Tax Return For A C-Corp.  The C-Corp will then issue each owner, investor and/or shareholder a K-1 which they will need before they can even start their personal tax return.  A C-Corp  “is” a separately taxable entity, and therefore files its own physically separate tax return and issues K-1’s to all owners, officers, investors and shareholders.

Additional Information For Rental Property Owners

Occasionally a rental property owner will be “convinced” they need to put their rental property into an LLC (be it single owner or multi-owner LLC) as a means of protecting themselves and their personal assets from legal litigation should they ever be sued by a tenant. The property owner is told the LLC gives them and their personal assets a “veil of protection” from any legal litigation that may arise as the result of legal actions perpetrated by a rental tenant. Nothing could be farther from the truth.  If you check court records (even in your local area) you’ll probably find numerous cases where a tenant sued their landlord and the LLC provided practically no protection of the property owner’s assets. That “veil of protection” supposedly offered by an LLC is so thin, even a new first time lawyer has no problem piercing that veil and attacking the personal assets of the property owner on behalf of the tenant. There are other problems and issues with this too.

In order to legally transfer ownership of rental property to an LLC, the owner must have the permission of the mortgage holder. No lender in their right mind will give this permission either. Even if you think you can refinance the property or “sell” it to your LLC, unless your LLC has the cash on hand to pay for it in full, your LLC will never qualify for the mortgage loan. The lender doesn’t want to risk your LLC going under (by filing bankruptcy for example), and they lose money because of it. So I’m confident in telling you, that’s not going to happen.

When you create an LLC for your rental property, it’s generally understood that business income gets reported on SCH C as a part of your personal tax return. However, a SCH C business produces “earned” income, and a rental property produces “passive” income. What’s the difference?

Earned income is income which you have to do out and “do something” in order to earn it. This income is subject to regular income tax, and also an additional 12.6% self-employment tax. The SE tax is basically the employer side of your social security and Medicare. But rental income is not “earned” income, and therefore is not reported on SCH C. So if you create an LLC for your rental property, then absolutely nothing concerning that rental property will be reported on SCH C. Not one penny of rental income and not one penny of rental expenses.

Rental income is “passive”. That’s because all you do with rental property on a recurring basis is just “sit there” and collect the rent every month. You are not “doing anything” to “earn” it on a recurring basis. That’s why rental income is reported on SCH E. Rental income is subject to regular tax, but is NOT subject to the additional self-employment tax. This means that rental income DOES NOT COUNT for your social security account or Medicare contributions.

SO if you create an LLC for your rental property, there are two things that will NOT happen.
 - You will not be able to “legally” transfer ownership of the property from you, to the LLC unless you have a really dumb lender.
 - You will not report one penny of rental income or one penny of rental expense on SCH C.

So in the end, you will be filing a zero income/expense SCH C with your personal tax return.

Now let’s say you decide to file the 8832 to treat your LLC like an S-Corp, and then you transfer ownership of the property to your LLC. You can and will report your rental income on SCH E as a part of the 1120-S Corporate Return, and you will also report the K-1 on SCH E as a part of your personal tax return. But keep in mind that this is for ***TAX PURPOSES ONLY!!!****. So if a tenant sues you, I seriously doubt the courts will recognize your S-Corp, and I seriously doubt the court will recognize the S-Corp as a physically separate owner of the property. Remember, that 8832 Entity Classification Election is for “TAX PURPOSES ONY”. It has no weight at all for any and all other legal purposes – such as you being sued by a tenant.

SO if you want to do this (and it still makes no financial sense) then form an actual S-Corp and transfer ownership of the property to the S-Corp. More than likely the lender won’t allow the transfer. But you can sell the property to the S-Corp if the S-Corp can qualify for a mortgage loan.  Overall though, it’s still financially dumb to do this. Here’s why I say that.

When you move out of your primary residence and convert it to residential rental real estate, you have to convert your homeowner’s insurance policy to a rental dwelling policy. Or if you buy the real estate as rental property outright, then you have to obtain a rental dwelling policy at that time.  A rental dwelling policy will, at a minimum, include $300,000 of liability coverage. For most that will suffice. But if the property is in certain areas of the country you may want more liability coverage. I have three rentals myself and have a total of $1,000,000 of liability on each. It cost me less than an additional $100 a year on the insurance for each property. So for me, it’s worth it. It’s also significantly cheaper not only in money, but in time spent dealing with corporate taxes and all that other additional paperwork crap.

One mistake I see quite often is that when an owner converts their primary residence or 2nd home to rental property, and they fail to update their insurance policy. This can bite when you have a claim. If the property is insured as your primary residence, but you are using it as rental property (which is other than it’s insured use) don’t be surprised when the insurance company denies your claim, and you can’t find any lawyers that will take your case.  If it’s a case of you being sued by a tenant, then to be honest and put it bluntly, you’re screwed.

 

 

 

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