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GeorgeM777
Expert Alumni

Day Trading taxes

Whether you have an LLC will probably not make the difference if the IRS should challenge your claim that you are a Trader in securities, whether that trading consists of options or futures contracts.  What will matter, if you are challenged by the IRS to support your position, is whether your trading activities are consistent with those who are legitimately engaged in the business of trading in securities.  Thus, the IRS will look to see whether your trading activities meet the following requirements:

 

  • You must seek to profit from daily market movements in the prices of securities and not from dividends, interest, or capital appreciation;
  • Your activity must be substantial; and
  • You must carry on the activity with continuity and regularity.

All of the above requirements are questions of fact.  The IRS might question how it is that you can have a full-time job while at the same time carry on your securities trading activities with continuity and regularity.  This is not to suggest it cannot be done, each person's situation must be judged on its merits.  

 

You can prepare your return in TurboTax, but you will need to use the CD or download version of TurboTax because you will need to go into Forms mode to manually enter certain information on Form 4797, Sale of Business Property.  This assumes you decide to make a mark-to-market election.  If you decide not to make the MtM election, your trades will be reported on Form 8949, Sales and Other Dispositions of Capital Assets or Schedule D, whichever is applicable, and you can report your trades in this way using either the CD or download version or the online version of TurboTax, whichever you prefer.  Note, that if you make the MtM election, you can prepare Form 4797 in TurboTax; however, because the IRS requires you to attach a statement to your return reflecting all of your trades, TurboTax cannot attach such statement to your return, and thus,  you will need to paper mail your return to the IRS.

 

If you make the MtM election for tax year 2023, you will need to make a valid election under IRC section 475(f) and attach a statement to your 2022 tax return.  No extensions are allowed with regard to the due date for the election made pursuant to 475(f).  The statement should include the following information:

  1. That you're making an election under section 475(f);
  2. The first tax year for which the election is effective (that is, the tax year for which a timely election is being made); and
  3. The trade or business for which you're making the election.

Refer to the Instructions for Schedule D (Form 1040), Capital Gains and Losses  for more information on how to make the mark-to-market election. It's important to note that in general, late section 475(f) elections aren't allowed.

 

Form 3115 is filed with your tax return for tax year 2023, assuming you have made the MtM election.  If you decided against making the MtM election, then Form 3115 is not required. 

 

@Srk84 

 

[Edited 03/16/2023 | 9:17am PST]

 

@Srk84 

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Srk84
Returning Member

Day Trading taxes

You are correct about Question, I live in PST Timezone and the requirements of daily trade count along with hours does work with my job. Thanks for the clarification on the Form 3115, For the election 475c Should I mention which accounts I am trading in the election ? What if I open a new brokerage account in future (I do have a plan for that) and definitely don't want to MtM for my individual accounts. How can i seperate them

DianeW777
Expert Alumni

Day Trading taxes

Yes. An individual can easily segregate trader transactions from investor transactions by simply using separate accounts for each. You may be a trader using the mark-to-market (MtM) method while at the same time being an investor for the segregated investments.

 

By mentioning the accounts that are part of the MtM this would clearly separate them from your personal investment accounts.

 

@Srk84 

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Srk84
Returning Member

Day Trading taxes

Thank you very much. So where should I mention those accounts in the election or should I do that in Form 3115 Next year ?

Day Trading taxes

I would NOT report any specific accounts anywhere, it can lock you into using only those accounts (if you ever have a challenge to your taxes) which you may change from time to time.  I've been trading for years and just use separate accounts, some even from the same broker.  One is for MTM, three others are non-MTM.  I just report them separately on my returns and receive separate 1099's for them. Better to leave your options open but DO NOT use one account for both MTM and non-MTM, that would be the worst thing you could do.

Srk84
Returning Member

Day Trading taxes

This is extremely valuable suggestion. Thanks so much, yes I have seperate accounts and plan to use the same way you mentioned

GeorgeM777
Expert Alumni

Day Trading taxes

The MtM election is just the election and thus, you would not be listing your MtM account versus your investment accounts in the actual election statement.  As mentioned in prior posts, it is prudent to have a separate account for your MtM trading and other account(s) for your investments, i.e., non MtM trading.   Moreover, you may not want to include in your MtM trading account any Section 1256 contracts as such contracts get favorable capital gains rates--regardless of holding period--which would be lost if effected in your MtM trading account. 

 

Form 3115 is filed with your tax return.  Thus, if you elect MtM trading status for 2023, you will file Form 3115 with your tax return for tax year 2023--which you will probably file sometime in early 2024 before the April 2024 deadline.  You may have to list separately your MtM trading account particularly when you complete Part II of Form 3115.  You will also have to complete, among other things, Part IV which relates to your section 481(a) adjustment. 

 

@Srk84 

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Srk84
Returning Member

Day Trading taxes

One Specific question to you, While I am working towards my MTM Election for this and separate accounts for 1256, Day Trading and LT Investments. I wanted to ask your personal opinion, I am not inclined to form LLC for trading this year. Do you trade with LLC or individual with separate accounts.

Day Trading taxes

I don't see any value in an LLC personally, maybe there is one but not for me.  Going with a S-Corp can give you some advantages with healthcare benefits you can provide and other possible options but then you add much more complexity of all the legal paperwork every year as well as more complicated taxes for both the corp and the individual. Some gets taxed at corp rates and some at personal.  There's a lot more that goes into it than can be explored here.  Look at the options.  Consider the Green Trader guide to taxes, it may help you.  It doesn't give any direction, just discusses ideas.

Personally I am sole proprietor.  I setup a Solo-401k which works out very nicely for my needs.  I have healthcare from another business so no need to expand.

 

Srk84
Returning Member

Day Trading taxes

Truly appreciate your response. As mentioned I have full time Job with very good W2 and this is becoming more side business, being in Pacific Zone, I was able to make good money thru this early before work and call it a day. I plan to make this larger either S Corp or LLC but not at this stage, for this year, I made election for MTM and plan to do Individual Returns with Spouse.

 

For taxes on Trading, I plan to pay Quarterly as Advance from the Trading.

GeorgeM777
Expert Alumni

Day Trading taxes

To follow-up on your question/comment regarding forming a Limited Liability Company, if you decide to form an LLC for your trading business, and you have no other members (or owners) in your LLC, you would be considered a Single Member LLC.  As such, the IRS would treat your SMLLC the same way it treats a sole proprietor, namely, you would complete a Schedule C and list all of your trading business expenses on Schedule C.   If you have elected MtM status, then your gains/losses from trading get reported on Form 4797, Sales of Business Property.  

 

Just a reminder regarding Form 4797, IRS instructions require that a Trader attach a statement to Form 4797 using the same format as line 10, showing the details of each transaction and further to separately show and identify securities or commodities held and marked to market at the end of the year.  TurboTax does not support the uploading of this statement.  Thus, a Trader in these circumstances would need to print out their return and mail it to the IRS.

 

@Srk84 

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Srk84
Returning Member

Day Trading taxes

Thanks So much George. Totally understood, I think that Problem is for next year as I just need to make election this year and work on taxes and all forms next year. Will keep that in mind.

Day Trading taxes

One comment on this - Paying Quarterly for you taxes is not always the best method. Most traders pay only the 4th quarter payment due in January because income/loss can vary wildly throughout the year. You can follow the "Safe Harbor" rules on this to avoid penalties.  I don't recall the exact specifics but it's something like you can pay 90% of last years tax by January 10 or 110% of what you expect to owe.  It sure helps if you have losses at some point to provide some working capital. 

Srk84
Returning Member

Day Trading taxes

Much appreciated, I will use the rule of paying before Jan 10

Day Trading taxes

Similar question as others.  I elected MTM for 2022 taxes and wish to implement it properly, with this being my first year of filing..  I'm having trouble figuring out how to get the information into Turbotax (Deluxe).  Do I need to upgrade my product? Specific additional questions after reading this thread, Do I need to list my holdings on Jan 1 as "inventory" or where does that go?   I'm also having some difficulty finding where to list these as sale of property.  Any hints would be appreciated.  Also, I have 1099-misc line 8 substitutions.  Am I correct that even though these are in my business account they go under personal income, "Other income"?  If not, how do you put it on the Schedule C?  Thanks

 

 

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