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Questions Regarding Form 8615, 1099Q, Dependent Status, Med deductions if adult child is not a dependent

 

For 2021-adult child, age 23, lived with us the entire year. Including living expenses and high medical bills, we provided well over half of her support. She started the year attending full-time college online (from home), but had to drop out in early April due to COVID factors.  She tried to return to school during summer term, but the online classes proved too much and she withdrew after a couple of weeks.  

She received $14,900 in Social Security disability (Disabled Adult Child or DAC), which paid for less than half of her living and medical expenses. From part time work from late summer to year end, she earned $7800 working part time. She saved $6500 of this into an ABLE account to help fund future living expenses when she moves out.

She had a scholarship that covered a large portion of her college costs.  We used 529 funds from her grandpa for her additional school expenses. Because there will be left over money in the 529 due to her cousins not attending college, we withdrew the scholarship amount from the 529 to avoid the 10% penalty getting it out in the future.  This added $8901 in Schedule 1, Line 8z expenses to her 1040, most of which was not taxable due to the standard deduction. 

Questions:

  • Can we claim her as a dependent?  Per the IRS dependent tool, this appears to depend on student status. Which definition of student status applies? Turbo Tax is automatically listing her as a student (probably due to the 1099Q), but IRS guidelines looked up separately seem to say she has to attend for at least some part of 5 mo and be full-time be a "student". Does going only 2 days in one of the months or dropping out affect this?
  • TT is automatically classifying her as a student, which triggers Form 8615 and her needing to pay tax on a small amount at our marginal rate. Not sure if this is right because TT never asked if she was full-time for 5 mo. Because we think she might not qualify as a student under that rule, we did try to delete Form 8615, but TT kept putting it back. We then went back through all the questions and no matter what we marked anywhere and everywhere about not being a student, Form 8615 could not be removed. However, marking her as a non-student on one of the Question sections does increase the tax refund by $700, but then we probably can’t claim her as a dependent and take off the substantial medical bills we paid for her and we probably can’t get the Lifelong Learning tax credit of $2k??? (She already used 4 years of AOTC trying to get through college previously).
  • Can you please advise about whether she’s a dependent, the correct way to determine student status for the situations that apply to her, why we can’t turn off form 8615 if we don’t need it, and what to do about medical expenses we paid and the Lifelong Learning credit if she isn’t a student. If not a student, could we still deduct the medical and she get the LLL credit?  Also, sge didn’t get either of the first two Covid checks (due to being a student or being disabled?), but she finally did get one (3rd, I think), so does this factor in somehow?  Any other pertinent info we need to look at? Thank you for any insights.
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16 Replies
Carl
Level 15

Questions Regarding Form 8615, 1099Q, Dependent Status, Med deductions if adult child is not a dependent

Here's my take on this. To qualify as your dependent, the child/student must meet 5 criteria.

 - Relationship

 - Age

 - Residency

 - Support

 - Joint return

Relationship is not questioned here.

Age is questioned. The rule reads (paraphrased) "must be under the age of 19 on Dec 31 of the tax year, *OR* Under the age of 24 and enrolled as a full time student for any one semester that started during the tax year."

We need to define what the IRS calls a "full time student".  IRS Publication 17, page 28 at https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p17.pdf reads:

Student defined. To qualify as a student, your child must be, during some part of each of any 5
calendar months of the year:

1.
A full-time student at a school that has a regular teaching staff, course of study, and a regularly enrolled student body at the school; or
2.
A student taking a full-time, on-farm training course given by a school described in (1), or by a state, county, or local government agency.
The 5 calendar months don’t have to be consecutive.

Based on that, it is of my opinion they qualify as your dependent, even though they have more than $4,300 of *EARNED* income for the year.

For the "support" requirement, if the above holds water, there is no requirement for the parents to provide a qualifying student any support. Not one single penny. The support requirement is on the student, and only the student. That requirement reads, "If the STUDENT did NOT provide more than half of THEIR OWN support during the tax year, then the parents qualify to claim that student as their dependent.

There are only two possible ways the student can provide more than half of their own support.

 1. The student is self-employed or has a W-2 job and earned sufficient funds to justify a claim to providing more than half of their own support. Monies earned by the student must exceed the total 3rd party income received by the student during the tax year. 3rd party income includes scholarships, grants, 529 distributions, and any other income received by the student or on behalf of the student from any other source, including the parents. 3rd party income does *not* count for the student providing their own support.

 2. The student is the *primary* borrower on a qualified student loan and sufficient funds were distributed by the lender during the tax year to justify a claim to providing more than half of their own support. Monies distributed to the student must exceed the total 3rd party income received by the student during the tax year. 3rd party income includes scholarships, grants, 529 distributions, and any other income received by the student or on behalf of the student from any other source, including the parents. 3rd party income does *not* count for the student providing their own support.

 

If the above does not hold water, then your child would fall under the "Qualifying Relative Dependent" rules, and would not qualify as your dependent since they have more than $4,300 of earned income for the tax year.

 

Questions Regarding Form 8615, 1099Q, Dependent Status, Med deductions if adult child is not a dependent

Thank you. No way did our student provide anywhere close to half of her support, or more than she got from 3rd parties, such as scholarships, grants, 529s, parent money.  Does the Social Security disability income count as 3rd party or earned income? Still not enough to exceed half tho. Loans were only $10k or less, so nothing there. Still wondering tho, since she dropped out and didn't finish the semester, does it still count as "full-time". January--March, yes, full time;  April-full time until dropped out on April 3;  May, full time until withdrew after 2 wks of a 4 week term. 

Carl
Level 15

Questions Regarding Form 8615, 1099Q, Dependent Status, Med deductions if adult child is not a dependent

The only thing I see here that's questionable is the 5 month requirement.

If enrolled for any part of a month, then the whole month counts. So if if enrolled Jan- Apr 3, that's four months.  May counts as the 5th month if enrolled and class actually started in May. But I find that unusual since typically college students finish the spring semester in May-June and the summer semester doesn't start until June. But just because it's unusual doesn't mean its not possible.

 

Hal_Al
Level 15

Questions Regarding Form 8615, 1099Q, Dependent Status, Med deductions if adult child is not a dependent

The $8901 from the 1099-Q/529 plan is unearned income and will trigger form 8615, whether she is your dependent or not (if she was a fulltime student for 5 months, and it appears she was).

 

Is she qualifies as your dependent, her standard deduction is limited to her earned income ($7800) + $350.  A dependent doesn't get the full $12,550.

 

Whether she is your dependent or not appears to hinge on the support test.  The $14,900 in SSDI  is considered her own suooprt. Money she put into savings (including the ABLE) does not count as support she spent on herself. Scholarships are excluded from the support calculation.

The support value of the home, provided by the parent, is the fair market rental value of the home plus utilities & other expenses divided by the number of occupants.

The IRS has a worksheet that can be used to help with the support calculation. See: http://apps.irs.gov/app/vita/content/globalmedia/teacher/worksheet_for_determining_support_4012.pdf

Questions Regarding Form 8615, 1099Q, Dependent Status, Med deductions if adult child is not a dependent

Hello Carl,
I have finally heard back from the school. She was full time Jan-early April, when she withdrew. Spring semester ended in late May and there was a short summer term that started in late May and went into mid June. She was only enrolled half time. So it appears she can't be a dependent, since she wasn't full time for any part of 5 mo, only for 4 mo and the 5th month was half time. Removed her being a dependent and she is now filing on her own for 2021.  

TT is still asking questions about school, however, so are these answers be right?  I can't say she wasn't in school or not working on a degree bc she was, and she got a 1098T and a withdrawal from a 529 so obvious she was in school. 

 

From  Interview:

  • Were you a student in 2021? Let us know if you took classes at an eligible school or university in 2021.  YES, I was a student in 2021.
  • Were you working on an Associates, Bachelors or Graduate degree?  YES, I was working on one of these degrees. 
  • What was your enrollment status for 2021?   AT LEAST HALF TIME
  •  Did you support yourself in 2021?  NO, My earned income was less than half of my support. 

From Personal Worksheet Part II

  • Can someone claim you as a dependent?  NO
  • Were you a full-time student during any part of 5 mo during 2021?  NO
  • Did your earned income exceed one-half of your support? NO
  • Was at least one of your parents alive on December 31, 2021?  YES

We paid for a lot of medical for her in 2021.  We have been researching if we can still take these off on our return (we itemize), even though she isn't a dependent or qualifying relative.  It appears there might be a way to do it if the only reason she's not a qualifying relative is that she made too much money, but not sure if this only applies to helping your parents not your offspring?  Any insights on whether this or some other provision allows us to take off the medical we paid?

I found this on an HRBlock site: Section 213 disregards the income of a “qualifying relative,” but it still takes into account whether you provided more than one-half of that person's support during the year. This was added because it is typical for elderly parents to have social security income, so Congress did not want their Social Security income to inhibit the ability of a child to claim a deduction for the medical expenses paid.

Thank you so much Carl and Hal_Al  for your prior answers!

 

Carl
Level 15

Questions Regarding Form 8615, 1099Q, Dependent Status, Med deductions if adult child is not a dependent

Since she does not qualify as your dependent, you can not claim her on your taxes. Period. The student however, can file their own tax return and claim that which they are entitled to claim on their own tax return, regardless of who paid the expense. That includes the medical expenses. For the medical expenses to have any impact, two criteria must be met.

1. The medical expenses must exceed 7.5% of their AGI.

2. The total of all itemized deductions which includes medical expenses, must exceed the standard deduction.

Then, and only then, will the itemized deductions that "exceed" the standard deduction have any impact on reducing the tax liability.

Note that deductions can only reduce the tax liability to zero. Once that's done, additional deductions make no difference.

 

Hal_Al
Level 15

Questions Regarding Form 8615, 1099Q, Dependent Status, Med deductions if adult child is not a dependent

You cannot claim your daughter's medical expnses, since she is not your dependent.  You do not qualify for the "medical dependent" exception. 

 

"Medical Dependent". If your close relative cannot be your dependent only because she had more than $4,300 of gross income, but otherwise would have qualified as your dependent (basically that you  provided more than half her support), then you can include in your deductible medical expenses any qualifying medical expenses you paid on her behalf just as if she was your dependent. 

 

Note: the medical dependent rule would only apply, in the case of a potential qualifying relataive, not a potential qualifying child dependent. 

Questions Regarding Form 8615, 1099Q, Dependent Status, Med deductions if adult child is not a dependent

Once we heard back from the school about the summer term being only half time,  knew we could not claim her no matter what. Was hoping she met the exemption that we could deduct her medical bills. They exceeded her income and  standard deduction, but there's almost no income to deduct them against. ☹️ 

Don't quite understand why she can't be a qualifying relative (I'll go back and read the requirements bc I must have missed something), but accept that's how it is. Thanks for the replies!  You two are the best!

Hal_Al
Level 15

Questions Regarding Form 8615, 1099Q, Dependent Status, Med deductions if adult child is not a dependent

There are two types of dependents, "Qualifying Children"(QC) and Other ("Qualifying Relative" in IRS parlance even though they don't have to actually be related).  A person can still be a Qualifying relative dependent, if not a Qualifying Child, if he meets the 6 tests for claiming a dependent:

  1. Closely Related OR live with the taxpayer ALL year
  2. His/her gross taxable income for the year must be less than $4400 (2022).
  3. The taxpayer must have provided more than 1/2 his support (The support test is different for each type. The support test, for a QC, is only that the child didn't provide more than half his own support. The support test for a Qualifying Relative is that the taxpayer provided more than half the relative's support).

In either case:

  1. He must be a US citizen or resident of the US, Canada or Mexico
  2. He must not file a joint return with his spouse or be claiming a dependent of his own
  3. He must not be the qualifying child of another taxpayer

Since you, apparently,  didn't provide half her support, she cannot be your (qualifying relative) dependent. 

Questions Regarding Form 8615, 1099Q, Dependent Status, Med deductions if adult child is not a dependent

We did provide over half of her support, quite a bit more than half.  The only one of the six she doesn't meet is she earned more than $4400. Because of that, she can't be a Qualifying Relative dependent and we can't claim her.  But I read about a rule that if someone is a Qualifying Relative except for making over the $4400, that we can claim the medical expenses we paid for them. Below is what I read and wondering if this applies to our situation.

 

Now, we know what dependents qualify under Section 152: qualifying children and qualifying "relatives."

We also know that the statutory definition of a "relative" can include anyone, including an entirely unrelated person as long as that person has lived with you for more than 183 days.

This can include a girlfriend, a boyfriend. or a best friend

We also know that, as applied to a person related to you by blood, marriage, or law, the individual does not actually have to live with you; the law only requires that you provide more than half of their support and that the person make less than $4200 in order to claim the person as a dependent.

The full scope and power of Section 213, however, is only realized when you apply the statutory modification to Section 152. Section 213(a) instructs us to disregard "subsections (b)(1), (b)(2), and (d)(1)(B)" of Section 152. In doing so, a qualifying relative, such as a parent, can make more than $4200.

Thus, as long as you provided the majority of their support, you can claim medical expenses you paid for them even though they're not actually listed on your tax return as a dependent.

In other words, as long as:

  • (1) the individual is related to you by blood, marriage, or law
  • (2) you provide the majority of their support, then you can claim as a deduction all medical expenses you paid for them.

So let's provide some examples to really drive the point home. Let's first start with the most common scenario, which is going to involve a taxpayer's parents.

Section 213 disregards the income of a “qualifying relative,” but it still takes into account whether you provided more than one-half of that person's support during the year. This was added because it is typical for elderly parents to have social security income, so Congress did not want their Social Security income to inhibit the ability of a child to claim a deduction for the medical expenses paid.

Example 1

Mother and father are retired and living in Scotland. Their son lives and works in New York City. Their son pays all of their medical expenses.

If the son can establish that he provides more than half of their support, then, despite the fact that he lives thousands of miles away in a different country, he may claim a deduction for all of the medical expenses he paid for his parents even though he does not claim them as dependents and his parents file their own separate tax return.

Example 2

Joanna and Alicia are best friends. Alicia becomes terribly ill in February, loses her job in March, is evicted from her apartment in April, and has no family to depend on. Joanna lets Alicia move into her home in May. Alicia stays until December when she recovers, finds a job, gets her own apartment again, and moves out. Alicia lived with Joanna for more than 183 days.

During her stay, Joanna paid $8,000 in medical expenses for Alicia as well as other living expenses. However, Alicia had income in January, February, and December, so she files her own tax return. Joanna does not claim her as a dependent since Alicia made more than $4200.

Nevertheless, Joanna is able to prove she provided more than half of Alicia's support throughout the year; therefore, Joanna is entitled to claim all of the medical expenses she paid for Alicia even though Alicia files her own tax returns, moved out before the end of the year, and was not formally claimed as a dependent on Joanna’s tax return.

See Jewell v. C.I.R., 69 T.C. 791 (1978), acq. rec. by IRS AOD 1978-78 (Mar. 22, 1978).

Hal_Al
Level 15

Questions Regarding Form 8615, 1099Q, Dependent Status, Med deductions if adult child is not a dependent

Yes, if the $4400 income rule is the only reason your  daughter is  disqualified as a qualifying relative dependent, then you are allowed to claim her medical expenses on your  tax return (on Schedule A, itemized deductions), even though you cannot claim her as a dependent  (and you cannot claim her educational expenses).

 

I misunderstood your description of her support sources* to mean that you did not provide more than half her support. 

 

*Note: SSDI, loans (that you did not co-sign), her earned income, scholarships, and grandpa's 529 are all support sources not provided by you.

Questions Regarding Form 8615, 1099Q, Dependent Status, Med deductions if adult child is not a dependent

Oh, I better look at that again if the scholarships  and 529 money count as her support.  We paid most of her living, transportation, and other expenses, but the big one is her medical that may still have us providing over half of her support. Thanks so much for clarifying this! 

Carl
Level 15

Questions Regarding Form 8615, 1099Q, Dependent Status, Med deductions if adult child is not a dependent

There are only two possible ways a student can provide more than 50% of their own support.

1. The student is self-employed or has a W-2 job. The money earned must be sufficient to support a claim to providing more than half of their own support. Additionally, the money earned must be more than the total of all 3rd party income received for the year. Third party income includes, but is not limited to, scholarships, grants, 529 distributions, gifts from Aunt Mary, money from parents, etc.

2) The student is the *primary* borrower on a qualified student loan and the amount distributed to the student throughout the year is sufficient to support a claim to having provided more than half of their own support.  Additionally, the money distributed by the lender during the tax year must be more than the total of all 3rd party income received for the year. Third party income includes, but is not limited to, scholarships, grants, 529 distributions, gifts from Aunt Mary, money from parents, etc. 

Questions Regarding Form 8615, 1099Q, Dependent Status, Med deductions if adult child is not a dependent

Hi Carl,

Thanks for the additional info!   Option 2 doesn't apply but Option 1 looks like it may be good news for us being able to deduct her medical bills we paid for.  Her earned income, all W-2, was $7800, not enough to pay for more than half her support. In addition, 3rd party income exceeded that since the school scholarship was $8500, another grant was $3500, and there was the 529 money from grandpa.  What we spent on her basic living expenses (housing, utilities, food, transportation, auto insurance, cell phone, clothes, recreation, etc.), but not counting medical was more than her SSDI plus her income. Adding in the medical bills we paid for her may put the total support we provided higher than her combined earned and 3rd party (SSDI, scholarship, grant, and 529), income but not sure yet. But it sounds like that doesn't matter . . . ?  

Thank you again for this great information. 

 

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