I keep having to pay a Virginia penalty for underpaying my income tax although all the tax is owed when I vile my state taxes. This penalty tax is not calculated by intuit software although I complain to them. This results on me getting a letter from the state saying I owe a penalty even though I pay what Intuits software calculates not knowing a penalty is owed. I've complained every year to intuit about it when I get a letter from the state, and inutit continues not to calculate it - a blank field.
why do I have to pay a penalty on underestimated tax when this tax is on the stock dividends I collet throughout the year. If one buys and sells stock during the year, one can predict what will earn a dividend and how much vs. not earning a dividend. Thus, at the end of the year one gets a statement saying what one got for the whole year as total dividend across one or more stoccks. This is unfair, since one is being penalized for being an investor although one intends to pay the tax owed and shouldn't be charged a fine/penalty for not being able to predict their gain in dividends. This would seem one should get a credit when their losses of not making the divident that one would like.
Tired of intuit not calculating this penalty and that the state of virginia penalizes me for being an investor that makes money. How much are we talking about in terms of a penaly - its only $38 dollars thereabouts.Moreover, when one pays the penalty on their website, it applies it to the current year and doesn't ask for which year this payment applies. In my case the penalty was for 2023 but it applied it to 2024 and the state of viriginia sent to a collection agency although I paid it thinking it applied it to the past year. Upon calling VA tax agency in Richmond they said I have to write a letter to state move the 2024 payment and apply it to 2023. Hence one has to do this every year that intuit doesn't calculate it and write a letter that takes 2-3 months to correct the misapplication of this penalty paid online.
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Income reported on a 1099-B, 1099-DIV, or any other income, is assumed to be earned spread out over the whole year. Payments are only counted as being made when they are made.
Both the IRS and the states want taxes paid more or less evenly over the year, with payments due April 15, June 15, Sept 15 and January 15. If you only make a payment when you file your tax return, then you were underpaid for 12 months on the tax you should have paid in April, you were underpaid for 10 months on the tax you should have paid in June, and so on.
There is a calculation you can do called the annualized income method, when you have a lump sum of income. For example, if you cash out a large position in December, the IRS and state will look at that income and assume it was paid evenly over the year, and they will look for the 4 estimated payments. You will be under-paid even if you made a lump sum payment by January 15. You can use the annualized income method to show that your income was uneven but your tax payments in each quarter were appropriate for the income in each quarter.
That won't work for you for 2 reasons. First, if you are not making a payment for the 4th quarter on January 15, then you are late on all your payments even if you pay in full in March or April. And second, if you are receiving dividends throughout they year, that income is received by you over the course of the year and you should be making payments each quarter -- the annualized income method won't help because you don't have a single lump sum of income to account for. Your income is spread out over the year, you just aren't paying the taxes over the year.
Turbotax includes the penalty calculation forms but it does not always automatically ask you to complete them because it does not recognize every situation where you might owe a penalty. You can run the interview manually, look for it in the state module. (The federal penalty form is under "special circumstances" in the federal section.
Another way to avoid the penalty is to make quarterly estimated payments for the due dates I gave. You can make electronic payments at the state tax web site. If you over-pay the estimate, you get the difference back as a refund. You need to make estimated payments that equal 90% of your eventual tax bill, or 100% of last year's tax bill.
For example, suppose that in 2023, your total tax was $10,000. You expect that withholding from your job will be $8000 in 2024. If you made 4 quarterly estimated payments of $500 (so that your total payments for 2024 were at least $10,000) that should avoid a penalty, even if your dividends and gains in 2024 are more than 2023. (If your gains and dividends are less, your tax is less and you get a refund.)
At this point in 2024, your best hope is to make an estimated payment before January 15, 2025, so that your total withholding plus payments is 100% or more of your 2023 tax bill. If you wait until April 15 to pay, you will get hit with another under-payment penalty even if you have paid in full when you file.
@swegmike wrote:
is it possible to get around the quarterly payments by reducing # of dependents? I did this by reducing from myself to zero so that more tax is with held. Why pay more than I have to since I would get some of it back, but the state doesn't pay me interest on this difference that I over estimated so that could reduce the tax penalty.
When i do fill out the taxes, the penalty worksheet isn't filled in so that I can submit the penalty with the tax as a total sum. Thus, one gets letters from the state two months later and it should've of just added it onto the tax bll to begin with.
Two questions here.
1. Yes, if you increase your job withholding, that should prevent a penalty. The goal is for the IRS and state to get between 90% and 100% of the tax you will eventually owe, spread out over the year rather than only paying at the end. If you have more tax taken out of your paycheck instead of making separate payments, that will accomplish that goal.
2. You should be able to manually access and fill out the penalty form, even if it is not given to you automatically. I know that on the federal side, the program will ask you something like "It doesn't look like you owe a penalty but would you like to calculate one just in case?" and then you can run the interview and complete the form. I don't know exactly how it works in the VA state module, but it will be there someplace.
Also, any penalty calculation on your tax return (federal or state) is always just an estimated penalty, and is usually off a little bit plus or minus from the official calculation. So you could still get a bill or refund for a few dollars.
Income reported on a 1099-B, 1099-DIV, or any other income, is assumed to be earned spread out over the whole year. Payments are only counted as being made when they are made.
Both the IRS and the states want taxes paid more or less evenly over the year, with payments due April 15, June 15, Sept 15 and January 15. If you only make a payment when you file your tax return, then you were underpaid for 12 months on the tax you should have paid in April, you were underpaid for 10 months on the tax you should have paid in June, and so on.
There is a calculation you can do called the annualized income method, when you have a lump sum of income. For example, if you cash out a large position in December, the IRS and state will look at that income and assume it was paid evenly over the year, and they will look for the 4 estimated payments. You will be under-paid even if you made a lump sum payment by January 15. You can use the annualized income method to show that your income was uneven but your tax payments in each quarter were appropriate for the income in each quarter.
That won't work for you for 2 reasons. First, if you are not making a payment for the 4th quarter on January 15, then you are late on all your payments even if you pay in full in March or April. And second, if you are receiving dividends throughout they year, that income is received by you over the course of the year and you should be making payments each quarter -- the annualized income method won't help because you don't have a single lump sum of income to account for. Your income is spread out over the year, you just aren't paying the taxes over the year.
Turbotax includes the penalty calculation forms but it does not always automatically ask you to complete them because it does not recognize every situation where you might owe a penalty. You can run the interview manually, look for it in the state module. (The federal penalty form is under "special circumstances" in the federal section.
Another way to avoid the penalty is to make quarterly estimated payments for the due dates I gave. You can make electronic payments at the state tax web site. If you over-pay the estimate, you get the difference back as a refund. You need to make estimated payments that equal 90% of your eventual tax bill, or 100% of last year's tax bill.
For example, suppose that in 2023, your total tax was $10,000. You expect that withholding from your job will be $8000 in 2024. If you made 4 quarterly estimated payments of $500 (so that your total payments for 2024 were at least $10,000) that should avoid a penalty, even if your dividends and gains in 2024 are more than 2023. (If your gains and dividends are less, your tax is less and you get a refund.)
At this point in 2024, your best hope is to make an estimated payment before January 15, 2025, so that your total withholding plus payments is 100% or more of your 2023 tax bill. If you wait until April 15 to pay, you will get hit with another under-payment penalty even if you have paid in full when you file.
is it possible to get around the quarterly payments by reducing # of dependents? I did this by reducing from myself to zero so that more tax is with held. Why pay more than I have to since I would get some of it back, but the state doesn't pay me interest on this difference that I over estimated so that could reduce the tax penalty.
When i do fill out the taxes, the penalty worksheet isn't filled in so that I can submit the penalty with the tax as a total sum. Thus, one gets letters from the state two months later and it should've of just added it onto the tax bll to begin with.
@swegmike wrote:
is it possible to get around the quarterly payments by reducing # of dependents? I did this by reducing from myself to zero so that more tax is with held. Why pay more than I have to since I would get some of it back, but the state doesn't pay me interest on this difference that I over estimated so that could reduce the tax penalty.
When i do fill out the taxes, the penalty worksheet isn't filled in so that I can submit the penalty with the tax as a total sum. Thus, one gets letters from the state two months later and it should've of just added it onto the tax bll to begin with.
Two questions here.
1. Yes, if you increase your job withholding, that should prevent a penalty. The goal is for the IRS and state to get between 90% and 100% of the tax you will eventually owe, spread out over the year rather than only paying at the end. If you have more tax taken out of your paycheck instead of making separate payments, that will accomplish that goal.
2. You should be able to manually access and fill out the penalty form, even if it is not given to you automatically. I know that on the federal side, the program will ask you something like "It doesn't look like you owe a penalty but would you like to calculate one just in case?" and then you can run the interview and complete the form. I don't know exactly how it works in the VA state module, but it will be there someplace.
Also, any penalty calculation on your tax return (federal or state) is always just an estimated penalty, and is usually off a little bit plus or minus from the official calculation. So you could still get a bill or refund for a few dollars.
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